Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: hardware math

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 19:03:12 10/11/02

Go up one level in this thread


On October 11, 2002 at 15:39:47, Keith Evans wrote:

>On October 11, 2002 at 12:12:18, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On October 11, 2002 at 11:07:52, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>On October 11, 2002 at 10:38:12, Jeremiah Penery wrote:
>>>
>
>>No it wouldn't.  Hsu would not need to do anything other than re-do the design
>>and submit it to an existing fab shop to produce the chips.  It wouldn't be
>>cheap,
>>but it wouldn't cost a fortune either.  The only cost would be Hsu's salary,
>>and the fab cost for a run of N chips, where N would probably need to be at
>>least
>>1000.  I don't claim to have an idea of what the cost would be, as IC
>>fabrication is
>>not something I follow closely.  But it _would_ be fast as all hell, because
>>rather than
>>20mhz they could go 100X faster with no problems at all, and probably do a
>>better
>>design since the DB chips had to make concessions for routing and gate delays
>>that
>>could be better handled today.
>
>So did Hsu say that he thinks that he could run at _100X_ the frequency or is
>that coming from you?

5 years ago he said "this thing could go at 36 million nodes per second using
today's
fab process."

That was as compared to 2-2.4M nodes per second for the DB processors running at
20 and 24 mhz.  He later said that he thought it could be made 100 times faster.
 I
don't recall who posted that here, but it was after attending a presentation by
them...

That might be conservative now, since going from 20mhz to 2 ghz would certainly
be
doable and that is a factor of 100.  And the clocks are now going way beyond 2.0
ghz...




<As far as I know, the Belle style move generator that he
>used cannot be pipelined. (If you think that it could be pipelined, then please
>elaborate because I sure as hell don't see a way.) So I'm not sure that you
>would be able to run that at 2 GHz given the amount of combinatorial and routing
>delay. I expect that it would be difficult or impossible to pipeline the
>evaluation logic too since at least some of that uses structures similar to the
>move generation, but I'm not as familiar with that logic.
>
>Please note that he used tristate busses for arbitration, so there would be some
>relatively heavily loaded nets. (Unless he completely changed this logic.)
>
>Can somebody ask him about this during the Q and A? Also ask him if he's thought
>about doing any FPGA work - those Virtex II parts are nice.
>
>BTW - You left out the cost of the tools, and I don't know if you would need to
>buy a library or not. These costs alone would exceed $1M.
>
>Keith


Perhaps for your last point.  Unless he worked at a place that chose to support
his research
as was done at IBM.  Then the cost would be zero for the tools...

As far as the design goes, I _really_ don't know a lot about his latest stuff,
but the belle
system was based on a 10 cycle pipeline based on his comments...



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.