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Subject: Re: Is the Crafty-Sjeng match complete?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 13:54:46 11/08/02

Go up one level in this thread


On November 08, 2002 at 16:06:44, Ricardo Gibert wrote:

>On November 08, 2002 at 15:30:20, James Swafford wrote:
>
>>On November 08, 2002 at 15:15:43, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>
>>>On November 08, 2002 at 14:41:34, James Swafford wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Sorry if this is old news... I don't get much time to
>>>>read the posts these days.
>>>>
>>>>Crafty and Sjeng played a 5 3 match the other day which
>>>>ended in favor of Crafty.  Have they played since?
>>>>I'd like to know if GCP's claim that Sjeng is stronger
>>>>is true.
>>>>
>>>>My guess is the engines are pretty close, but I'm not yet
>>>>convinced Sjeng is stronger.
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>James
>>>
>>>Last thing I heard sounded like a comedy of errors. GCP inadvertantly used the
>>>"Tal" personality, which was not intended for comp-comp play. Sjeng fell behind
>>>in the first series of games as a consequence. GCP corrected this and Sjeng held
>>>its own thereafter. However, RH discovered he had inadvertantly used an
>>>experimental version not ready for ICC play! Consequently, all those games
>>>appeared to be meaningless.
>>
>>Right.  I'd like to see GCP and Bob get "the best they got" and
>>play a no excuses match.  Winner gets bragging rights.  I don't
>>feel like anything has been settled yet, just two people both
>>claiming their engine is stronger than the other's.  Should be
>>easy to settle.
>>
>>GCP has stated (at least) twice that I can see for myself when
>>it's released, but I'd rather see a public match.  They are much
>>more interesting (and less time consuming on my part :) ).
>>
>>--
>>James
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I just now looked at Sjeng's history on ICC and got the following:
>>>
>>> Recent games of Sjeng:
>>>
>>>                      Opponent     Type         ECO End Date
>>>    18: + 2828 W 2676 crafty       [ br  5   3] C42 Mat Nov 07 02 16:14
>>>    17: + 2818 B 2686 crafty       [ br  5   3] B26 Mat Nov 07 02 15:59
>>>    16: + 2807 W 2697 crafty       [ br  5   3] C42 Mat Nov 07 02 15:32
>>>    15: + 2795 B 2709 crafty       [ br  5   3] B61 Mat Nov 07 02 15:19
>>>    14: a 2782 B 2722 crafty       [ br  5   3] A00 Sho Nov 07 02 15:17
>>>    13: + 2782 W 2722 crafty       [ br  5   3] B01 Mat Nov 07 02 14:53
>>>    12: = 2767 B 2737 crafty       [ br  5   3] D66 Rep Nov 07 02 14:40
>>>    11: + 2769 W 2735 crafty       [ br  5   3] C42 Mat Nov 07 02 14:21
>>>    10: = 2753 B 2751 crafty       [ br  5   3] D00 Rep Nov 07 02 13:57
>>>     9: + 2753 W 2751 crafty       [ br  5   3] C42 Mat Nov 07 02 13:38
>>>     8: - 2735 W 2792 TombRaider   [ br  3   3] B22 Res Nov 07 02 12:30
>>>     7: + 2750 B 2759 crafty       [ br  5   3] B84 Mat Nov 07 02 06:46
>>>     6: = 2732 W 2777 crafty       [ br  5   3] D45 Rep Nov 07 02 06:23
>>>     5: = 2730 B 2779 crafty       [ br  5   3] B84 Agr Nov 07 02 06:08
>>>     4: = 2728 W 2781 crafty       [ br  5   3] D46 Agr Nov 07 02 05:54
>>>     3: = 2725 B 2784 crafty       [ br  5   3] D45 Agr Nov 07 02 05:40
>>>     2: - 2722 W 2787 crafty       [ br  5   3] D46 Mat Nov 07 02 05:25
>>>     1: = 2736 B 2773 crafty       [ br  5   3] B84 Agr Nov 07 02 05:12
>>>     0: + 2734 W 2775 crafty       [ br  5   3] C96 Mat Nov 07 02 04:54
>>>    99: = 2714 B 2795 crafty       [ br  5   3] B81 Rep Nov 07 02 04:44
>>>
>>>This shows Crafty being handed its head in the most of the most recent games
>>>near the top. Considering the errors that were made in conducting this match, I
>>>would not draw any conclusions from this at all...except that running a match on
>>>ICC appears to be quite challenging ;-)
>
>I looked at Crafty's and it appears to be a little bit more informative:
>
>Recent games of crafty:
>
>                      Opponent     Type         ECO End Date
>    12: + 2557 W 2665 EA6PZ        [ sr 15   3] B23 Res Nov 07 02 21:45
>    11: = 2534 B 2527 HangerOn     [ sr 45   5] C44 Agr Nov 07 02 20:33
>    10: - 2670 B 2910 EA6PZ        [ br  5   3] D11 Mat Nov 07 02 20:07
>     9: - 2677 W 2922 BountyHunter [ br  5   3] D29 Mat Nov 07 02 19:45
>     8: + 2684 W 2485 IgorIvanov   [ br  5   3] D11 Res Nov 07 02 19:10
>     7: a 2676 B 1917 Hyatt        [ bu  5   5] A43 Agr Nov 07 02 18:25
>     6: - 2676 B 2828 Sjeng        [ br  5   3] C42 Mat Nov 07 02 16:14
>     5: - 2686 W 2818 Sjeng        [ br  5   3] B26 Mat Nov 07 02 15:59
>     4: - 2697 B 2807 Sjeng        [ br  5   3] C42 Mat Nov 07 02 15:32
>     3: - 2709 W 2795 Sjeng        [ br  5   3] B61 Mat Nov 07 02 15:19
>     2: a 2722 B 1917 Hyatt        [ bu  5   5] A00 Sho Nov 07 02 15:18
>     1: a 2722 B 1917 Hyatt        [ bu  5   5] A00 Sho Nov 07 02 15:18
>     0: a 2722 W 2782 Sjeng        [ br  5   3] A00 Sho Nov 07 02 15:17
>    99: a 2722 B 1917 Hyatt        [ bu  5   5] C20 Agr Nov 07 02 15:17
>    98: - 2722 B 2782 Sjeng        [ br  5   3] B01 Mat Nov 07 02 14:53
>    97: = 2737 W 2767 Sjeng        [ br  5   3] D66 Rep Nov 07 02 14:40
>    96: - 2735 B 2769 Sjeng        [ br  5   3] C42 Mat Nov 07 02 14:21
>    95: = 2751 W 2753 Sjeng        [ br  5   3] D00 Rep Nov 07 02 13:57
>    94: - 2751 B 2753 Sjeng        [ br  5   3] C42 Mat Nov 07 02 13:38
>    93: - 2534 W 2658 Yace         [ sr 60  30] C10 Mat Nov 07 02 11:04
>
>If you'll note, RH appeared to make some type of adjustment to crafty which he
>tested in games #99 to #2. After that, Crafty lost 4 straight.



The first few games were played on the quad 400.  I left for class and Crafty
reverted
back to the quad 700 for most of the remainder of that first set of games that
GCP
reported on here.  That night I worked myself on the quad 400 trying to
integrate a
lot of the "personality stuff" Mike Byrne sent to me.  I got some of it done,
but had
some real quirks that I didn't feel like fixing late that night.

The next day, GCP asked if I could switch to the quad-400, and I did.  Without
remembering
my "in progress" debugging.  Crafty played horribly and lost games against
everybody.  I
finally realized what had happened when I got out of class and got home, and
asked my sysadmin
to "pull the cable" as I couldn't shut crafty down remotely.

That's where things ended.  It doesn't take much to see that something was
_seriously_ wrong
with the last games in Crafty's history against everybody...  The problem
related to badly screwed
up "piece values"...


>
>I suspect the adjustment contained yet another error in setting Crafty up, since
>I don't think Sjeng is really that much better (if at all) than Crafty. Then
>rather than make yet another excuse, which would have come off sounding lame, RH
>simply threw in the towel and discontinued the match. The more honorable course
>of action. I wouldn't be surprised if RH never managed to use a reasonable
>version of Crafty in this match. This seems the most plausible explanation to
>me. I don't think Sjeng is that much better.
>
>If you're a Sun Tzu fan, you might speculate that RH "craftily" played the
>entire match with an inferior version of Crafty on purpose to project apparent
>inferiority when superiority is the actual case ;-)



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