Author: Ricardo Gibert
Date: 13:06:44 11/08/02
Go up one level in this thread
On November 08, 2002 at 15:30:20, James Swafford wrote:
>On November 08, 2002 at 15:15:43, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>
>>On November 08, 2002 at 14:41:34, James Swafford wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Sorry if this is old news... I don't get much time to
>>>read the posts these days.
>>>
>>>Crafty and Sjeng played a 5 3 match the other day which
>>>ended in favor of Crafty. Have they played since?
>>>I'd like to know if GCP's claim that Sjeng is stronger
>>>is true.
>>>
>>>My guess is the engines are pretty close, but I'm not yet
>>>convinced Sjeng is stronger.
>>>
>>>--
>>>James
>>
>>Last thing I heard sounded like a comedy of errors. GCP inadvertantly used the
>>"Tal" personality, which was not intended for comp-comp play. Sjeng fell behind
>>in the first series of games as a consequence. GCP corrected this and Sjeng held
>>its own thereafter. However, RH discovered he had inadvertantly used an
>>experimental version not ready for ICC play! Consequently, all those games
>>appeared to be meaningless.
>
>Right. I'd like to see GCP and Bob get "the best they got" and
>play a no excuses match. Winner gets bragging rights. I don't
>feel like anything has been settled yet, just two people both
>claiming their engine is stronger than the other's. Should be
>easy to settle.
>
>GCP has stated (at least) twice that I can see for myself when
>it's released, but I'd rather see a public match. They are much
>more interesting (and less time consuming on my part :) ).
>
>--
>James
>
>
>
>>
>>I just now looked at Sjeng's history on ICC and got the following:
>>
>> Recent games of Sjeng:
>>
>> Opponent Type ECO End Date
>> 18: + 2828 W 2676 crafty [ br 5 3] C42 Mat Nov 07 02 16:14
>> 17: + 2818 B 2686 crafty [ br 5 3] B26 Mat Nov 07 02 15:59
>> 16: + 2807 W 2697 crafty [ br 5 3] C42 Mat Nov 07 02 15:32
>> 15: + 2795 B 2709 crafty [ br 5 3] B61 Mat Nov 07 02 15:19
>> 14: a 2782 B 2722 crafty [ br 5 3] A00 Sho Nov 07 02 15:17
>> 13: + 2782 W 2722 crafty [ br 5 3] B01 Mat Nov 07 02 14:53
>> 12: = 2767 B 2737 crafty [ br 5 3] D66 Rep Nov 07 02 14:40
>> 11: + 2769 W 2735 crafty [ br 5 3] C42 Mat Nov 07 02 14:21
>> 10: = 2753 B 2751 crafty [ br 5 3] D00 Rep Nov 07 02 13:57
>> 9: + 2753 W 2751 crafty [ br 5 3] C42 Mat Nov 07 02 13:38
>> 8: - 2735 W 2792 TombRaider [ br 3 3] B22 Res Nov 07 02 12:30
>> 7: + 2750 B 2759 crafty [ br 5 3] B84 Mat Nov 07 02 06:46
>> 6: = 2732 W 2777 crafty [ br 5 3] D45 Rep Nov 07 02 06:23
>> 5: = 2730 B 2779 crafty [ br 5 3] B84 Agr Nov 07 02 06:08
>> 4: = 2728 W 2781 crafty [ br 5 3] D46 Agr Nov 07 02 05:54
>> 3: = 2725 B 2784 crafty [ br 5 3] D45 Agr Nov 07 02 05:40
>> 2: - 2722 W 2787 crafty [ br 5 3] D46 Mat Nov 07 02 05:25
>> 1: = 2736 B 2773 crafty [ br 5 3] B84 Agr Nov 07 02 05:12
>> 0: + 2734 W 2775 crafty [ br 5 3] C96 Mat Nov 07 02 04:54
>> 99: = 2714 B 2795 crafty [ br 5 3] B81 Rep Nov 07 02 04:44
>>
>>This shows Crafty being handed its head in the most of the most recent games
>>near the top. Considering the errors that were made in conducting this match, I
>>would not draw any conclusions from this at all...except that running a match on
>>ICC appears to be quite challenging ;-)
I looked at Crafty's and it appears to be a little bit more informative:
Recent games of crafty:
Opponent Type ECO End Date
12: + 2557 W 2665 EA6PZ [ sr 15 3] B23 Res Nov 07 02 21:45
11: = 2534 B 2527 HangerOn [ sr 45 5] C44 Agr Nov 07 02 20:33
10: - 2670 B 2910 EA6PZ [ br 5 3] D11 Mat Nov 07 02 20:07
9: - 2677 W 2922 BountyHunter [ br 5 3] D29 Mat Nov 07 02 19:45
8: + 2684 W 2485 IgorIvanov [ br 5 3] D11 Res Nov 07 02 19:10
7: a 2676 B 1917 Hyatt [ bu 5 5] A43 Agr Nov 07 02 18:25
6: - 2676 B 2828 Sjeng [ br 5 3] C42 Mat Nov 07 02 16:14
5: - 2686 W 2818 Sjeng [ br 5 3] B26 Mat Nov 07 02 15:59
4: - 2697 B 2807 Sjeng [ br 5 3] C42 Mat Nov 07 02 15:32
3: - 2709 W 2795 Sjeng [ br 5 3] B61 Mat Nov 07 02 15:19
2: a 2722 B 1917 Hyatt [ bu 5 5] A00 Sho Nov 07 02 15:18
1: a 2722 B 1917 Hyatt [ bu 5 5] A00 Sho Nov 07 02 15:18
0: a 2722 W 2782 Sjeng [ br 5 3] A00 Sho Nov 07 02 15:17
99: a 2722 B 1917 Hyatt [ bu 5 5] C20 Agr Nov 07 02 15:17
98: - 2722 B 2782 Sjeng [ br 5 3] B01 Mat Nov 07 02 14:53
97: = 2737 W 2767 Sjeng [ br 5 3] D66 Rep Nov 07 02 14:40
96: - 2735 B 2769 Sjeng [ br 5 3] C42 Mat Nov 07 02 14:21
95: = 2751 W 2753 Sjeng [ br 5 3] D00 Rep Nov 07 02 13:57
94: - 2751 B 2753 Sjeng [ br 5 3] C42 Mat Nov 07 02 13:38
93: - 2534 W 2658 Yace [ sr 60 30] C10 Mat Nov 07 02 11:04
If you'll note, RH appeared to make some type of adjustment to crafty which he
tested in games #99 to #2. After that, Crafty lost 4 straight.
I suspect the adjustment contained yet another error in setting Crafty up, since
I don't think Sjeng is really that much better (if at all) than Crafty. Then
rather than make yet another excuse, which would have come off sounding lame, RH
simply threw in the towel and discontinued the match. The more honorable course
of action. I wouldn't be surprised if RH never managed to use a reasonable
version of Crafty in this match. This seems the most plausible explanation to
me. I don't think Sjeng is that much better.
If you're a Sun Tzu fan, you might speculate that RH "craftily" played the
entire match with an inferior version of Crafty on purpose to project apparent
inferiority when superiority is the actual case ;-)
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