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Subject: Re: endgame blunder by DeepFritz7

Author: Terry McCracken

Date: 07:48:11 11/25/02

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On November 25, 2002 at 01:08:27, Uri Blass wrote:

>On November 24, 2002 at 13:22:46, Terry McCracken wrote:
>
>>On November 24, 2002 at 10:23:38, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On November 23, 2002 at 19:16:23, Jay Hysenbeg wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 23, 2002 at 08:17:02, Terry McCracken wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On November 23, 2002 at 00:32:08, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On November 23, 2002 at 00:13:32, Terry McCracken wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On November 22, 2002 at 23:45:01, Jay Hysenbeg wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>[D]8/4p3/4Q3/8/8/k1p3PP/1q3P1K/8 w - - 0 1
>>>>>>>>wKh2,Qe6,Pf2,g3,h3/bKa3,Qb2,Pc3,e7
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>is this a problem with my deepfritz7 or does this happen with your df7 too. mine
>>>>>>>>fails to see that Qxe7 is a loosing line
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Is it certain Qe7 loses?  All I can see is a long series of checks and I don't
>>>>>>see how black can find a safe haven from them to promote the pawn...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I let Crafty run a while and it says 0.00...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Bob White can't lose, I just inserted the [D] to look at the position.
>>>>>
>>>>>It looked totally uninteresting.
>>>>>
>>>>>Terry
>>>>chesstiger 15/14 and gambit tiger both see that Qxe7 is losing for white score
>>>>jumps by 5 pawns
>>>
>>>
>>>Would you post the "losing" line?  I don't see how black can ever escape the
>>>checks.
>>
>>Bob I looked at it again and it appears I really underestimated the position!
>>
>>After 1.Qxe7+?? ...Ka2!! going to b1 and it really goes down hill for White
>>quickly!
>>
>>I should have seen this...arrghh! getting rusty...."creak"....sigh...
>>
>>Terry
>>
>>P.S. 1...Kb3 is ok I think but Ka2!! and White will have to resign, Black will
>>get out of check and promote his pawn.
>>
>>Try it yourself, you'll see White starts to lose ground for grabbing the pawn.
>>
>>It's a tricky endgame and Fritz 7 is slower than Tiger to spot the loss.
>>HIARCS 8, Junior 7, Shredder 6 all see a lost position but not straight away.
>>
>>Only Tiger spots it instantly! Bravo Christophe!
>>
>>
>>Juni
>
>I guess that tiger see is based on evaluation and it may see a wrong win when
>there is only a draw(I do not know if this is the case).
>
>I expect intelligent programs to see that black is better(unless they can see
>that white can force a draw) but I also expect them not to evaluate the position
>as +5.
>
>As a human I think that only black can win the endgame so the score should be
>better for black unless I see a forced draw.
>
>Uri

You rely too much on computers....Qxe7+?? loses for White and Qa6+!! draws for
White.




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