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Subject: Re: endgame blunder by DeepFritz7

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 08:02:01 11/25/02

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On November 25, 2002 at 10:48:11, Terry McCracken wrote:

>On November 25, 2002 at 01:08:27, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On November 24, 2002 at 13:22:46, Terry McCracken wrote:
>>
>>>On November 24, 2002 at 10:23:38, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 23, 2002 at 19:16:23, Jay Hysenbeg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On November 23, 2002 at 08:17:02, Terry McCracken wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On November 23, 2002 at 00:32:08, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On November 23, 2002 at 00:13:32, Terry McCracken wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On November 22, 2002 at 23:45:01, Jay Hysenbeg wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>[D]8/4p3/4Q3/8/8/k1p3PP/1q3P1K/8 w - - 0 1
>>>>>>>>>wKh2,Qe6,Pf2,g3,h3/bKa3,Qb2,Pc3,e7
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>is this a problem with my deepfritz7 or does this happen with your df7 too. mine
>>>>>>>>>fails to see that Qxe7 is a loosing line
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Is it certain Qe7 loses?  All I can see is a long series of checks and I don't
>>>>>>>see how black can find a safe haven from them to promote the pawn...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I let Crafty run a while and it says 0.00...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bob White can't lose, I just inserted the [D] to look at the position.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It looked totally uninteresting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Terry
>>>>>chesstiger 15/14 and gambit tiger both see that Qxe7 is losing for white score
>>>>>jumps by 5 pawns
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Would you post the "losing" line?  I don't see how black can ever escape the
>>>>checks.
>>>
>>>Bob I looked at it again and it appears I really underestimated the position!
>>>
>>>After 1.Qxe7+?? ...Ka2!! going to b1 and it really goes down hill for White
>>>quickly!
>>>
>>>I should have seen this...arrghh! getting rusty...."creak"....sigh...
>>>
>>>Terry
>>>
>>>P.S. 1...Kb3 is ok I think but Ka2!! and White will have to resign, Black will
>>>get out of check and promote his pawn.
>>>
>>>Try it yourself, you'll see White starts to lose ground for grabbing the pawn.
>>>
>>>It's a tricky endgame and Fritz 7 is slower than Tiger to spot the loss.
>>>HIARCS 8, Junior 7, Shredder 6 all see a lost position but not straight away.
>>>
>>>Only Tiger spots it instantly! Bravo Christophe!
>>>
>>>
>>>Juni
>>
>>I guess that tiger see is based on evaluation and it may see a wrong win when
>>there is only a draw(I do not know if this is the case).
>>
>>I expect intelligent programs to see that black is better(unless they can see
>>that white can force a draw) but I also expect them not to evaluate the position
>>as +5.
>>
>>As a human I think that only black can win the endgame so the score should be
>>better for black unless I see a forced draw.
>>
>>Uri
>
>You rely too much on computers....Qxe7+?? loses for White and Qa6+!! draws for
>White.

How can you be sure without testing it with computers?

Yace latest line is

New position
[D]8/8/8/8/4Q3/6PP/1qp2P1K/1k6 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Yace 0.99.56:

4.Qe4-f5 Qb2-d4 5.Kh2-g2 Kb1-a1 6.Qf5xc2 Qd4-d5+ 7.Kg2-g1 Qd5-g2+ 8.Kg1xg2
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 17   00:18:04  397608kN

(Blass, Tel-aviv 25.11.2002)

Uri



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