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Subject: Re: Weak-chain argument (How fatal are weaknesses)

Author: Rolf Tueschen

Date: 10:58:19 02/16/03

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On February 16, 2003 at 12:14:55, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On February 16, 2003 at 06:46:33, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>
>>On February 15, 2003 at 22:17:52, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On February 15, 2003 at 14:52:10, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 15, 2003 at 14:34:31, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Answer me this, What Difference Does it make if you play more
>>>>>>positional chess, if you cannot defeated me??
>>>>>
>>>>>If that were the case, I would agree.  But by the same token, do you want
>>>>>your program to play 30 brilliant moves and one lemon move, over and over?
>>>>>That one lemon will drag your performance _way_ down at the top of the rating
>>>>>scale.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bob, may I point out with humility that this is exactly my weak-chain argument?
>>>>Finally we are on the point. Did you ever reflect what would happen if
>>>>
>>>> - in a really recompensating money atmosphere and
>>>>
>>>> - after top players adopted specific comp related chess?
>>>>
>>>>And that on the base of a known permanent weakness?
>>>>
>>>>That is the point. And not the typical hype based on show events /commercials.
>>>>
>>>>What is you impression with the GM play on ICC? But note, Roman D. had to face
>>>>an always changed version [on the base of his own hints]. Guess what will happen
>>>>if several top GM work hard on a counter strategy against comps, in other words
>>>>if GM adopt 'Eduard'...
>>>>
>>>>Only then, and that is my argument since long, the actual commercial progs begin
>>>>to SUCK. But on a permanent base!
>>>>
>>>>My questions to Amir went a bit in the same direction. Let's see how far the
>>>>experts can open their mind.
>>>>
>>>>Rolf Tueschen
>>>
>>>
>>>The question is "too hard" for someone that is _not doing this_.  IE who can
>>>say what a top GM player would do when folks start waving a million bucks
>>>around?  IE would he try to stomp the program and end the matches for years?
>>>Would he intentionally "play down" to guarantee another million dollar match
>>>next year?
>>>
>>>I'm not capable or qualified to answer that...
>>>
>>>And anything I might say would be absolute 100% speculation.
>>
>>
>>But - you are qualified enough, perhaps the best qualified in the field, to
>>judge the actual strength of the progs in relation to GM and their chess. Say,
>>the GM would run wild and were determined to kill, would they succeed or not,
>>that is the question, NOT would they really want that or would they do it.
>>
>>I know the answer from all what you said. But you want to hide it? For what
>>sensible goal? Do you want to avoid the deception of computerchess lovers
>>worldwide? Or don't you want to harm the future show events?
>>
>>
>>Rolf Tueschen
>
>
>The answer is "none of the above."  I'm not willing to speculate about things
>that I ultimately have no way of proving.  IE how can I prove what he was
>thinking and what his motivation was?  And without any way to prove/disprove
>anything, I don't see how my comments could help, although they could
>certainly hurt.

:)

I have a very simple question without speculations. How fatal are the actual
weaknesses of computer programs?

A) against players like Eduard

B) against Super-GM

C) against a group of GM [playing them in tournament chess] who would
concentrate on so called computerchess, here I agree I have a somewhat
theoretical model in mind, namely the idea that they could develop a sort of
strong anti-comp strategy, I am not talking about the actually known anti-comp
of Eduard or tricks like Trojan or whatever.

Rolf Tueschen



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