Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 18:48:25 02/16/03
Go up one level in this thread
On February 16, 2003 at 13:58:19, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >On February 16, 2003 at 12:14:55, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On February 16, 2003 at 06:46:33, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >> >>>On February 15, 2003 at 22:17:52, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On February 15, 2003 at 14:52:10, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >>>> >>>>>On February 15, 2003 at 14:34:31, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> Answer me this, What Difference Does it make if you play more >>>>>>>positional chess, if you cannot defeated me?? >>>>>> >>>>>>If that were the case, I would agree. But by the same token, do you want >>>>>>your program to play 30 brilliant moves and one lemon move, over and over? >>>>>>That one lemon will drag your performance _way_ down at the top of the rating >>>>>>scale. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Bob, may I point out with humility that this is exactly my weak-chain argument? >>>>>Finally we are on the point. Did you ever reflect what would happen if >>>>> >>>>> - in a really recompensating money atmosphere and >>>>> >>>>> - after top players adopted specific comp related chess? >>>>> >>>>>And that on the base of a known permanent weakness? >>>>> >>>>>That is the point. And not the typical hype based on show events /commercials. >>>>> >>>>>What is you impression with the GM play on ICC? But note, Roman D. had to face >>>>>an always changed version [on the base of his own hints]. Guess what will happen >>>>>if several top GM work hard on a counter strategy against comps, in other words >>>>>if GM adopt 'Eduard'... >>>>> >>>>>Only then, and that is my argument since long, the actual commercial progs begin >>>>>to SUCK. But on a permanent base! >>>>> >>>>>My questions to Amir went a bit in the same direction. Let's see how far the >>>>>experts can open their mind. >>>>> >>>>>Rolf Tueschen >>>> >>>> >>>>The question is "too hard" for someone that is _not doing this_. IE who can >>>>say what a top GM player would do when folks start waving a million bucks >>>>around? IE would he try to stomp the program and end the matches for years? >>>>Would he intentionally "play down" to guarantee another million dollar match >>>>next year? >>>> >>>>I'm not capable or qualified to answer that... >>>> >>>>And anything I might say would be absolute 100% speculation. >>> >>> >>>But - you are qualified enough, perhaps the best qualified in the field, to >>>judge the actual strength of the progs in relation to GM and their chess. Say, >>>the GM would run wild and were determined to kill, would they succeed or not, >>>that is the question, NOT would they really want that or would they do it. >>> >>>I know the answer from all what you said. But you want to hide it? For what >>>sensible goal? Do you want to avoid the deception of computerchess lovers >>>worldwide? Or don't you want to harm the future show events? >>> >>> >>>Rolf Tueschen >> >> >>The answer is "none of the above." I'm not willing to speculate about things >>that I ultimately have no way of proving. IE how can I prove what he was >>thinking and what his motivation was? And without any way to prove/disprove >>anything, I don't see how my comments could help, although they could >>certainly hurt. > >:) > >I have a very simple question without speculations. How fatal are the actual >weaknesses of computer programs? > >A) against players like Eduard > >B) against Super-GM This is simply too hard to answer. It is about like asking the question "how can we set rules so that a computer and a human play _equally_ without one side having some unfair advantage?" Computers and humans are so different, in such basic ways, that such a question is impossible to answer. Which means that trying to equate this weakness of the computer against that weakness of the human is _really_ too abstract to deal with (to me)... > >C) against a group of GM [playing them in tournament chess] who would >concentrate on so called computerchess, here I agree I have a somewhat >theoretical model in mind, namely the idea that they could develop a sort of >strong anti-comp strategy, I am not talking about the actually known anti-comp >of Eduard or tricks like Trojan or whatever. > >Rolf Tueschen
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