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Subject: Re: Back to reality...

Author: Matt Taylor

Date: 13:43:58 02/22/03

Go up one level in this thread


On February 22, 2003 at 11:31:52, Charles Worthington wrote:

>On February 22, 2003 at 03:32:59, Matt Taylor wrote:
>
>>On February 22, 2003 at 01:13:00, Charles Worthington wrote:
>>
>>>On February 22, 2003 at 01:05:46, Aaron Gordon wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 22, 2003 at 00:31:38, Charles Worthington wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 23:52:51, Charles Worthington wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Febronuary 21, 2003 at 23:48:41, Charles Worthington wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 19:57:10, Aaron Gordon wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 18:02:39, Charles Worthington wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 17:37:35, Aaron Gordon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 08:04:18, Mike Byrne wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 08:02:34, Mike Byrne wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 07:14:47, Charles Worthington wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 07:05:22, Charles Worthington wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 06:47:11, Mike Byrne wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On February 21, 2003 at 04:46:53, Charles Worthington wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob what program is required for me to conduct benchmark tests with Crafty?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Could you please e-mail it or post a link here to it? Thank you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Charles,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You have it, the "crafty" program has a built in benchmark ....start crafty in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>dos mode (console) with no crafty.rc file ( a plain taxt file you create with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>engine parameters - but in this case - do not have a crafty.rc file in the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>directory as crafty).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Type word "bench" at the command prompt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mike
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks Mike. I haven't set the Crafty you sent me up yet so I didn't know. In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all honesty I have no Idea  how to set it up to run on the Chessbase server. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Crafty that comes with fritz is already set up so I have never had to set one up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>yet. The other foreign progs are easy just drop in the  eng and dll and you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>done. This does not look so easy. :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>640 kNs.....Not good :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>on your new  machine??
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>ok I see it in your title ...that is respectable for 1.2Ghz Celeron -- it's in
>>>>>>>>>>>the ballpark -- I think a dual 3 Ghz will get 3M nps....
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Hyatts Dual xeon 2.8GHz only gets 2.1 million in the benchmark..
>>>>>>>>>>If you scale it up to 3.06x2 + HT you'll only see about 2.3 million.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Crafty v19.4 (1 cpus)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>White(1): mt=4
>>>>>>>>>>max threads set to 4
>>>>>>>>>>White(1): bench
>>>>>>>>>>Running benchmark. . .
>>>>>>>>>>......
>>>>>>>>>>Total nodes: 104415743
>>>>>>>>>>Raw nodes per second: 2130933
>>>>>>>>>>Total elapsed time: 49
>>>>>>>>>>SMP time-to-ply measurement: 13.061224
>>>>>>>>>>White(1): end
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Thats good to know aaron but i never said i would pull 3 million with crafty. I
>>>>>>>>>run fritz primarily. I may experiment some with crafty though. where are u
>>>>>>>>>getting a 3000kNs figure?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Mike mentioned 3000kN/s. By the way, from what I've seen Crafty will get more
>>>>>>>>kN/s than Fritz will. Crafty has better support for HT, too. The only way you
>>>>>>>>will come close to 3 million is by using an AMD system. Those don't need HT and
>>>>>>>>are fast already. Crafty gets 1.3 million nodes/sec on a P4-3.06GHz with HT,
>>>>>>>>1.8x speedup and you've got just over 2.3 million nodes/sec, just as Hyatt has
>>>>>>>>shown us here with his 2.8's. Now, you don't get to use HT (well, it's not
>>>>>>>>useful yet) in Deep Fritz. Take my CPU for example. I get about 1.6 million
>>>>>>>>nodes/sec in crafty's benchmark. 1.6 million * 1.7 speedup = 2.72 million
>>>>>>>>nodes/sec. This will also be quick for Deep Fritz, too. If you want speed and
>>>>>>>>don't mind pushing your chips a little (only 10% overlock, not much at all)
>>>>>>>>you'll have the fastest box.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Considering the motherboard will be $150 and each chip is less than $100 thats a
>>>>>>>>pretty good deal. ~$1000 for a system that gets 2.72 million nodes/sec without
>>>>>>>>any HT help OR $4000-5000 for a system that gets 2.31 million and has to support
>>>>>>>>HT. I don't know about you but the decision is pretty clear to me..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>well actually aaron i just watched one of the guys from ccc here in playchess
>>>>>>>with a dual 2600mp and he was pulling 1995 kNs with deep fritz 7 and was
>>>>>>>overclocked to over 2800...I saved the game and the kNs posted by the
>>>>>>>server...and it was more than one game as he was getting demolished by a 2.2 ghz
>>>>>>>p4 single. Oh and BTW i dont need 3.06 to beat that...Bob's 2.8's will pull 2250
>>>>>>>themselves. You guys can make all the wild claims here you like but the fritz
>>>>>>>server tells on you every time. The 3.06 dual will be here next week so If an
>>>>>>>amd system here can get a higher kNs i want to see it on the server where it
>>>>>>>counts but u had better do a whole bunch of overclocking and get those cpu's
>>>>>>>steaming. You would have to be dilusional to believe that AMD 2600MP is superior
>>>>>>>to a high end Intel Workstation. And I don't need a Degree in computer science
>>>>>>>to figure that one out. Just a little observation on the server will do. So if
>>>>>>>you can outpost the xeons dont tell me...come show me..then i will be the first
>>>>>>>to come back here and congratulate you... :-) Of course it wont happen so...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Oh and also i almost forgot There were others from here that witnessed it too
>>>>>>along with the speed he claimed to get here...the two wern't even close.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Oh and i also believe that if AMD had the technology or the research funds to
>>>>>have invented hyperthreading technology...they would have. it doesnt take a
>>>>>rocket scientist to see that two threads are better than one for multiple
>>>>>applications. So i will keep the 2600 dollar pair of xeons if you don't mind.
>>>>>Besides i wasnt looking to save money i was looking for a good machine that
>>>>>didn't_have_to be overclocked to get 2500 kNs. Had I been searching for an
>>>>>economical system i would have chosen the AMD. But I would have lived with what
>>>>>I had and not tried to fry eggs on it. :-)) Not everyone here wants 100.00
>>>>>cpu's. Thats why there are two markets...
>>>>
>>>>As koibito pointed out two XP's in SMP configuration are slower than two MP's.
>>>>Also I've already done the comparison. Koibito (dual athlons @ 2.31) gets more
>>>>nodes/second than hyatts box. Also, my old AthlonXP 1.6 @ 1.86GHz beat Hyatts
>>>>dual Xeon running Crafty? Does that make my machine better than his? Sure
>>>>doesn't. Programs, books, hash sizes, etc were all different. If you take the
>>>>exact same program with the same settings faster will better. There's no way
>>>>that single P4 is faster than his dual and that single P4 gets barely half of
>>>>what my cpu gets in chess stuff.
>>>>
>>>>Also, did koibito play a few hundred games against that P4? Did they use the
>>>>exact same program and settings? You can't make ANY conclusions about speed
>>>>based off what you've seen in those 1-2 games you saw. If you do then go ahead
>>>>and assume my old XP 1.86 is better than hyatts xeons.. it's not true but go
>>>>ahead anyway, you did the same with the dual Athlon box. ;)
>>>
>>>actually i never said her machine was faster than his duals...you werent paying
>>>attention. i said her single cpu was beating him every game...not that it was
>>>faster...what I_did_say was that his kNs there was waaay lower than what he
>>>claimed it was here. Nothing more. Everyone is posting unreasonably high figures
>>>here. Tell us what the machine really does within the bounds of the laws of
>>>physics...not what you_wish_it would do. I wish mine would get 10,000 kNs but it
>>>wont. And until something comes out that will get that speed I will be happy to
>>>stick with whatever is best at the time and not have to roast marshmallows on my
>>>processors. :-))
>>
>>Roasting marshmallows is a bit outdated. That was when Athlon was competing with
>>the Pentium 3. The Pentium 4 actually dissipates more heat than Athlon.
>>
>>-Matt
>
>
>I was only referring to overclocked high end Athlons Matt.

The last time I checked thermal data was after the release of the Thoroughbred
core (up to AthlonXP 2200). The high-end Athlon part was about 1-2W warmer than
the high-end Pentium 4 part (2.53 GHz). I believe the Pentium 4 figures compared
were also nominal dissipation values which would imply that the high-end Athlon
was actually cooler.

Right now Intel claims the Pentium 4 3.06 GHz dissipates 81.8W of heat. I'm not
sure whether that is average or maximum so I am making the assumption that it is
maximum. The AthlonXP 2700 (2.16 GHz) dissipates 68.3W of heat maximum. I don't
have data for the AthlonXP 2800 or AthlonXP 3000, but I doubt either produces
even 80W of heat.

Pentium 4 - http://www.intel.com/support/processors/pentium4/thermal.htm
Athlon - http://www.doerte-richter.de/mulle-78/AMD/amd_term_power.htm

-Matt



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