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Subject: Re: Here are some actual numbers

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 09:16:23 04/16/03

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On April 16, 2003 at 07:49:59, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On April 16, 2003 at 03:39:36, Tony Werten wrote:
>
>>On April 16, 2003 at 00:07:21, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On April 15, 2003 at 04:54:11, Tony Werten wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 14, 2003 at 17:43:12, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 14, 2003 at 17:15:41, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On April 13, 2003 at 22:39:39, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On April 13, 2003 at 11:49:28, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On April 13, 2003 at 11:27:53, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I said initially. It drops back to 10 splits a second in DIEP after a while.
>>>>>>>>Search depth matters.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Let's compare 2 things.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> time=45.98  cpu=464%  mat=0  n=37870294  fh=88%  nps=823k
>>>>>>>> ext-> chk=638414 cap=249442 pp=9588 1rep=32966 mate=223
>>>>>>>> predicted=0  nodes=37870294  evals=14565859
>>>>>>>> endgame tablebase-> probes done=0  successful=0
>>>>>>>> hashing-> trans/ref=28%  pawn=93%  used=28%
>>>>>>>> SMP->  split=431  stop=57  data=6/64  cpu=3:33  elap=45.98
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>MT 2  crafty 18.10 which i have here. 431 splits at 45 seconds. I guess you must
>>>>>>>>limit in crafty the number of splits a lot as splitting is expensive in crafty
>>>>>>>>when compared to the costs of a single node.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'm not sure how expensive it is compared to a node.  I'll run a test where
>>>>>>>I do the split overhead at every node to compare, however...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I don't limit them at all.  The only limit is the YBW algorithm.  But I split
>>>>>>>at the root also, which reduces them signficantly...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I can split at the root nowadays, but i have turned it off for diep. it gives
>>>>>>too poor speedup for me. The interesting thing which searching SMP can give is
>>>>>>transpositions at a big depth which possibly are overwritten by a sequential
>>>>>>search. i don't want to miss them.
>>>>>
>>>>>Maybe you don't split at the root correctly.  I limit this with some intelligent
>>>>>guesswork, so that if it appears that I might change my mind this iteration,
>>>>>then
>>>>>I don't split at the root until I have searched all moves that I think might
>>>>>replace
>>>>>the best move...
>>>>
>>>>Just trying to understand. Are you talking about the case where the best move in
>>>>the root got a fail low ?
>>>
>>>No.  I search the first move with all processors for obvious reasons.  I search
>>>the next "N" the same way, where "N" is set by trying to figure out how many
>>>moves _might_ become a new best move (I discover this by looking at the node
>>>counts for each move after an iteration ends.  If any are close to (or bigger
>>>than) the node count for the first move, then they deserve special parallel
>>>searching one at a time, before I split at the root and search a root move
>>>with only one processor (which will take longer).
>>
>>Hmm, I thought I finally understood this crap. Isn't splitting at the root the
>>most desireable situation ? If you have (after bestmove) 2 moves that deserve
>>special attention, why not search them parallel. Most of the time they will not
>>give a failhigh anyway.
>
>Ideal for the PV is splitting at realply == 2 and ideal for all non-pv moves is
>doing parallel search at realply == 3.
>
>Best regards,
>Vincent

Except for critical cases.  Such as changing your best root move.  Splitting at
ply=3
will be bad there in as many cases as it is good.  Not splitting at ply-2 there
will be
bad in as many cases as it is good..





>
>>Tony
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>When that happens, your testresults indicate that's it's better to split lower
>>>>than to search 2 rootmoves parallel in order to get an established score asap ?
>>>>( So not breaking off seacrh when 1 gets a first failhigh, but only when the
>>>>score is resolved )
>>>>
>>>>Tony
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>



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