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Subject: Re: Here are some actual numbers

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 09:43:26 04/16/03

Go up one level in this thread


On April 16, 2003 at 12:16:23, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On April 16, 2003 at 07:49:59, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On April 16, 2003 at 03:39:36, Tony Werten wrote:
>>
>>>On April 16, 2003 at 00:07:21, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 15, 2003 at 04:54:11, Tony Werten wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 14, 2003 at 17:43:12, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On April 14, 2003 at 17:15:41, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On April 13, 2003 at 22:39:39, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On April 13, 2003 at 11:49:28, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On April 13, 2003 at 11:27:53, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I said initially. It drops back to 10 splits a second in DIEP after a while.
>>>>>>>>>Search depth matters.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Let's compare 2 things.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> time=45.98  cpu=464%  mat=0  n=37870294  fh=88%  nps=823k
>>>>>>>>> ext-> chk=638414 cap=249442 pp=9588 1rep=32966 mate=223
>>>>>>>>> predicted=0  nodes=37870294  evals=14565859
>>>>>>>>> endgame tablebase-> probes done=0  successful=0
>>>>>>>>> hashing-> trans/ref=28%  pawn=93%  used=28%
>>>>>>>>> SMP->  split=431  stop=57  data=6/64  cpu=3:33  elap=45.98
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>MT 2  crafty 18.10 which i have here. 431 splits at 45 seconds. I guess you must
>>>>>>>>>limit in crafty the number of splits a lot as splitting is expensive in crafty
>>>>>>>>>when compared to the costs of a single node.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I'm not sure how expensive it is compared to a node.  I'll run a test where
>>>>>>>>I do the split overhead at every node to compare, however...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I don't limit them at all.  The only limit is the YBW algorithm.  But I split
>>>>>>>>at the root also, which reduces them signficantly...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I can split at the root nowadays, but i have turned it off for diep. it gives
>>>>>>>too poor speedup for me. The interesting thing which searching SMP can give is
>>>>>>>transpositions at a big depth which possibly are overwritten by a sequential
>>>>>>>search. i don't want to miss them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Maybe you don't split at the root correctly.  I limit this with some intelligent
>>>>>>guesswork, so that if it appears that I might change my mind this iteration,
>>>>>>then
>>>>>>I don't split at the root until I have searched all moves that I think might
>>>>>>replace
>>>>>>the best move...
>>>>>
>>>>>Just trying to understand. Are you talking about the case where the best move in
>>>>>the root got a fail low ?
>>>>
>>>>No.  I search the first move with all processors for obvious reasons.  I search
>>>>the next "N" the same way, where "N" is set by trying to figure out how many
>>>>moves _might_ become a new best move (I discover this by looking at the node
>>>>counts for each move after an iteration ends.  If any are close to (or bigger
>>>>than) the node count for the first move, then they deserve special parallel
>>>>searching one at a time, before I split at the root and search a root move
>>>>with only one processor (which will take longer).
>>>
>>>Hmm, I thought I finally understood this crap. Isn't splitting at the root the
>>>most desireable situation ? If you have (after bestmove) 2 moves that deserve
>>>special attention, why not search them parallel. Most of the time they will not
>>>give a failhigh anyway.
>>
>>Ideal for the PV is splitting at realply == 2 and ideal for all non-pv moves is
>>doing parallel search at realply == 3.
>>
>>Best regards,
>>Vincent
>
>Except for critical cases.  Such as changing your best root move.  Splitting at
>ply=3
>will be bad there in as many cases as it is good.  Not splitting at ply-2 there
>will be
>bad in as many cases as it is good..
>

you can predict that better than for the root.

>
>
>
>>
>>>Tony
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>When that happens, your testresults indicate that's it's better to split lower
>>>>>than to search 2 rootmoves parallel in order to get an established score asap ?
>>>>>( So not breaking off seacrh when 1 gets a first failhigh, but only when the
>>>>>score is resolved )
>>>>>
>>>>>Tony
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>



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