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Subject: Re: Complicated position ...

Author: blass uri

Date: 14:33:53 10/15/98

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On October 15, 1998 at 15:42:03, Vincent Lejeune wrote:

>On October 15, 1998 at 14:29:35, Moritz Berger wrote:
>
>>I tried the position with Junior 5 on PII-450 (256 MB RAM, 128 MB hash tables).
>>I wouldn't trust any computer analysis in this position, though, it's very
>>complicated even for the best programs on fast hardware ...
>>
>>Moritz
>>
>>Initial position:
>>r1b3k1/pp2n1r1/2n1p2Q/3pPpNB/2p2q1P/P7/2P2PP1/R3R1K1 b - h3 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Junior 5.0:
>>
>>20...c3 21.Re3 Bd7 22.Rae1 Qd4 23.Nxe6 Bxe6 24.Qxe6+ Kh7 25.Qf6
>>  -+  (-1.78)   depth: 14   00:00:38  13662kN
>>20...c3 21.Re3 Nxe5 22.g3 Ng4 23.Qxg7+ Kxg7 24.gxf4 Nxe3 25.fxe3 Ng6 26.Bxg6
>>Kxg6 27.Kf2
>>  ³  (-0.40)   depth: 16   00:01:53  41026kN
>>20...Nd8 21.Re3 Nec6 22.c3 d4 23.g3 Qxg5 24.hxg5 dxe3 25.fxe3 Nxe5 26.Rd1
>>  µ  (-1.32)   depth: 16   00:02:18  50099kN
>>20...Bd7 21.Rad1 c3 22.g3 Qa4 23.Nxe6 Bxe6 24.Qxe6+ Kh7 25.Qd7 Qxh4 26.Qxb7 Rh8
>>27.Bf3 f4
>>  -+  (-1.51)   depth: 16   00:03:35  77026kN
>>20...Qd4 21.Rad1 Qb2 22.Qf6 Nd8 23.Bf7+ Nxf7 24.Qxe7 Bd7 25.Nxe6 Bxe6 26.Qxe6
>>Rg4 27.Rxd5 Rxh4 28.Qxf5
>>  -+  (-1.70)   depth: 16   00:04:49  105737kN
>>20...Qd4 21.Rad1 Qb2 22.Qf6 Nd8 23.Bf7+ Nxf7 24.Qxe7 Bd7 25.Nxe6 Bxe6 26.Qxe6
>>Rg4 27.Rxd5 Rxh4 28.Qxf5
>>  -+  (-1.70)   depth: 16   00:04:49  105888kN
>>20...Qd4 21.Rad1 Qb2 22.Qf6 Nd8 23.Bf7+ Nxf7 24.Qxe7 Bd7 25.Nxe6 Bxe6 26.Qxe6
>>  -+  (-1.70)   depth: 17   00:06:31  143522kN
>>20...Qd4 21.Rad1 Qb2 22.Qf6 Nd8 23.Bf7+ Nxf7 24.Qxe7 Bd7 25.Nxe6 Bxe6 26.Qxe6
>>  -+  (-1.70)   depth: 17   00:07:51  167586kN
>>20...Qd4 21.Rad1 Qb2 22.Qf6 Nd8 23.Bf7+ Rxf7 24.Nxf7 Nxf7 25.Qxe7 Nxe5 26.Qg5+
>>Kf7 27.Qh5+ Ng6 28.Qh7+ Qg7 29.Qxg7+ Kxg7
>>  -+  (-1.42)   depth: 18   00:13:44  293349kN
>>20...Bd7 21.Rad1 c3 22.g3 Qa4 23.Nf7 Rxf7 24.Bxf7+ Kxf7 25.Qh7+ Kf8 26.Qh6+ Kg8
>>  -+  (-1.48)   depth: 18   00:17:11  367476kN
>>20...Bd7 21.Rad1 c3 22.g3 Qa4 23.Nf7 Rxf7 24.Bxf7+ Kxf7 25.Qh7+ Kf8 26.Qh6+ Kg8
>>  -+  (-1.48)   depth: 18   00:20:01  419756kN
>>20...Bd7 21.Rad1
>>  µ  (-1.18)   depth: 19   00:30:13  627583kN
>>20...Bd7 21.Rad1
>>  µ  (-1.18)   depth: 19   00:43:36  903055kN
>>20...Bd7 21.Rab1 b5 22.Re3 Rf8 23.g3 Qd4 24.Nxe6 Bxe6 25.c3 Qb6 26.Qxe6+ Kh7
>>27.Bd1 f4 28.Bc2+ Ng6 29.Bxg6+ Rxg6
>>  µ  (-1.27)   depth: 20   01:37:24  2081206kN
>>20...Bd7 21.Rab1 b5 22.Re3 Rf8 23.g3 Qd4 24.Nxe6 Bxe6 25.c3 Qb6 26.Qxe6+ Kh7
>>27.Bd1 f4 28.Bc2+ Ng6 29.Bxg6+ Rxg6
>>  µ  (-1.27)   depth: 20   02:00:00  2531581kN
>>
>>
>>if you follow the proposed main variation, at move 22. Junior thinks that white
>>is still ok:
>>
>>
>>r5k1/p2bn1r1/2n1p2Q/1p1pPpNB/2p2q1P/P7/2P2PP1/1R2R1K1 w - b6 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Junior 5.0:
>>
>>22.Re3 c3 23.g3 Qc4 24.Nxe6 Bxe6 25.Qxe6+ Kh7 26.Qf6 Rag8
>>  µ  (-1.25)   depth: 12   00:00:33  13211kN
>>22.Re3 c3 23.g3 Qc4 24.Nxe6 Bxe6 25.Qxe6+ Kh7 26.Qf6 Rag8
>>  µ  (-1.25)   depth: 12   00:00:34  13591kN
>>22.Re3 Nxe5 23.g3 Ng4 24.Qxg7+ Kxg7 25.gxf4 Nxe3 26.fxe3 Rh8 27.Bf7 Rxh4 28.Bxe6
>>Rg4+ 29.Kf2 Bxe6 30.Nxe6+
>>  µ  (-1.22)   depth: 14   00:00:47  18455kN
>>22.Re3 Nxe5 23.g3 Ng4 24.Qxg7+ Kxg7 25.gxf4 Nxe3 26.fxe3 Rh8 27.Bf7 Rxh4 28.Bxe6
>>Rg4+ 29.Kf2 Bxe6 30.Nxe6+
>>  µ  (-1.22)   depth: 14   00:01:39  36665kN
>>22.Re3 Rf8 23.c3 d4 24.cxd4 a6 25.Bf7+ Rfxf7 26.Nxf7 Qxd4 27.Ng5 Nxe5 28.Nxe6
>>  µ  (-1.10)   depth: 15   00:02:02  45112kN
>>22.Re3 Rf8 23.c3 d4 24.cxd4 a6 25.Bf7+ Rfxf7 26.Nxf7 Qxd4 27.Ng5 Nxe5 28.Nxe6
>>  µ  (-1.10)   depth: 15   00:03:47  80282kN
>>22.Re3 Nxe5 23.g3 Ng4 24.Qxg7+ Kxg7 25.gxf4 Nxe3 26.fxe3 Rh8 27.Bf7 Kf6 28.h5
>>Rf8 29.Bxe6 Bxe6 30.Rxb5
>>  -+  (-1.43)   depth: 16   00:05:39  121470kN
>>22.Re3 Nxe5 23.g3 Ng4 24.Qxg7+ Kxg7 25.gxf4 Nxe3 26.fxe3 Rh8 27.Bf7 Kf6 28.h5
>>Rf8 29.Bxe6 Bxe6 30.Rxb5
>
>Ho dear ! It seems that Junior5 have overlooked 30. Nh7+ and 31.Nxf8  ;) (but
>Genius5 don't when I followed this line until 27th move ...)

It is a bad idea to follow a long line to decide about the position
black has better moves in this line( 27...Rxh4) and Junior has no problem to see
it.
It is a better idea to give Junior to play against  itself in the main lines to
give an opinion about the position

Uri
>
>
>>  -+  (-1.43)   depth: 16   00:13:36  292214kN
>>22.Re3
>>  µ  (-1.13)   depth: 17   00:14:24  309018kN
>>
>>
>>at move 25. Junior sees that white is lost:
>
>
>
>Next line seems less accurate cause it follow the first pv farther ...
>
>
>>
>>5rk1/p3n1r1/2n1b2Q/1p1pPp1B/2pq3P/P3R1P1/2P2P2/1R4K1 w - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Junior 5.0:
>>
>>25.c3 Qb6 26.Qxe6+ Kh7 27.Kh1 f4 28.Rf3 Ng6
>>  µ  (-1.24)   depth: 9   00:00:01  310kN
>>25.c3 Qxh4 26.Qxg7+ Kxg7 27.gxh4 f4 28.Ree1 Rh8 29.Bd1 a6 30.a4 Bf5 31.Ra1 Rxh4
>>32.axb5 axb5
>>  -+  (-2.00)   depth: 12   00:00:11  4240kN
>>25.c3 Qxh4 26.Qxg7+ Kxg7 27.gxh4 f4 28.Ree1 Rh8 29.Bd1 a6 30.a4 Bf5 31.Ra1 Rxh4
>>32.axb5 axb5
>>  -+  (-2.00)   depth: 12   00:00:22  8176kN
>>25.c3 Qxh4 26.Qxg7+ Kxg7 27.gxh4 f4 28.Ree1 Rh8 29.Bd1 Rxh4 30.Rxb5 Rh3 31.f3
>>Ng6 32.Rb7+ Kf8 33.Bc2 Ngxe5
>>  -+  (-2.18)   depth: 14   00:00:39  14344kN
>>25.c3 Qxh4 26.Qxg7+ Kxg7 27.gxh4 f4 28.Ree1 Rh8 29.Bd1 Rxh4 30.Rxb5 Rh3 31.f3
>>Ng6 32.Rb7+ Kf8 33.Bc2 Ngxe5
>>  -+  (-2.18)   depth: 14   00:01:17  27671kN
>>25.c3 Qd2 26.Qxe6+ Kh7 27.Rd1 Qc2 28.f4 Rfg8 29.Kf1 Rxg3 30.Rxg3 Rxg3 31.Be2 Rg7
>>  -+  (-3.03)   depth: 16   00:06:10  134177kN
>>25.c3 Qd2 26.Qxe6+ Kh7 27.Rd1 Qc2 28.f4 Rfg8 29.Kf1 Rxg3 30.Rxg3 Rxg3 31.Be2 Rg7
>>  -+  (-3.03)   depth: 16   00:10:00  212891kN



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