Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 15:19:34 07/08/03
Go up one level in this thread
On July 08, 2003 at 16:53:10, Rajen Gupta wrote: >On July 08, 2003 at 16:43:02, Russell Reagan wrote: > >>On July 08, 2003 at 16:16:00, Rajen Gupta wrote: >> >>>they didn't >> >>Thanks. That's all I needed to know. >> >> >>>and i am talking of the chip's overall performance as most >>>end-users dont buy a chip for its chess performance only: (even on this forum of >>>die-hard computer chess fanatics its quite probable that there are more intel >>>based systems being used) if this so-called pentium killer does not measure up >>>(and i have a horrible feeling it won't), it will be the end of AMD as we know >>>it; for the last 2 yrs they have been telling us: >>> >>>"never mind the athlon; it is only stop gap; wait for the hammer; it is going >>>to smash intel;" and finally after endless delays it does show up it appears to >>>be almost geting a smashing itself! >> >>You do realize that "most end-users who aren't interested in computer chess that >>are going to use the Opteron" aren't interested in 3D games either, right? The >>Opteron is a server chip. >> >>So I guess all of those web server admins who were planning on playing 3D games >>on the companies web server should choose the Pentium 4. Good point. >> >>I also wonder if they recompiled every benchmark they ran for the Opteron with a >>compiler that can take advantage of it's newer features. If so, it would be >>interesting to know where they got the source code for some of that stuff, and >>what compiler they used. They made sure to mention that they tuned everything >>for top performance on the P4 benchmarks. If they didn't do the same for the >>Opteron (which seems unlikely, if it's possible at all), then the benchmark is >>worthless. This wouldn't be the least bit suprising, as you are always quick to >>find all of the benchmarks that show Intel chips as being faster and post them >>here. >> >> >>>if AMD disappears, we will then be subject to intel's monopoly which will be a >>>horrible thing for us all: hence my disappointment with AMD: always too little >>>and too late! >> >>I doubt the sincerity of this statement, as you take every opportunity you can >>to promote Intel and bash AMD. > >i used to take every opportunity to promote AMD and bash intel when AMD >performed; and they did perform well all the way from the thunderbird upto 1800+ >when their chips clobbered intel in most benchmarks, besides having a huge lead >in in running chess software: thereafter they gradually slipped and for the last >year it has been a rout. its not my fault that this has happened; its just that >intel gritted their teeth and got on with what was necessary to get the job done >while AMD preferred to rest on their laurels :-( I tend to believe that with the intel/amd struggle there is a kind of a sinus going on after AMD introduced themselves into this processor technology. Then intel was faster, then AMD was faster. K7 really kicked butt. We had to wait a full year for it to get on the market because they were simply blackmailing all mainboard manufacturers. Same thing happens with opteron now. It would have been released long period of time ago with great mainboards if intel hadn't played the same game again. That is a clear show why it is good to have a competitor to intel. The amazing thing about the opteron is really its stunning achievements. Remember this chip is *not* created for computerchess. It's created to give the users x86-64. Additionally they also developed the revolutionary hypertransport. It is really incredible that a manufacturer after such a good chip like the K7 (it's IPC even kicked butt of all the supercomputer chips i tested including alpha 21164) has been capable of producing again outstanding technology. It is performing that well that intel is forced now to produce their own x86-64 chip. Depending upon what time that will take, opteron will slowly take over the highend market. In contradiction to the fast consumer world, the high end server market is always slow to change their machines and exchange them for new ones. They are faithful to manufacturers. In that respect the itanium is a big itanic thing. Sure it is a great chip, but its proven to be buggy and it will be again i fear. I really have this bad feeling when reading the test results. The 'incorrect results' can't be all intel c++ compiler bugs. "we are losing bits". That *can't* be compiler bugs all i fear. then itanium has more problems like which OS do you run with it? Linux? Hell no, bad choice! Opteron will push away the itanium incredible at the server market. Very little itaniums had been sold so far. That'll get even less now. Only some big supercomputers will have them. Though those eat loads of cpu's, you can't live from just producing cpu's that are in a few supercomputers like the SGI Altix3000. I guess many will move in the end to the opteron. SGI with the Cray supercomputers already is doing that. They simply betted at 3 horses (additionally they also will have real soon a dual core MIPS processor, don't compare that with SMT, this is the much better working CMP technology). My own guess as i wrote in the article in 'computerschaak' (dutch computerchess magazine) is that for 32 bits the prescott will kick butt a short while. Then when the 0.09 opterons are there and 64 bits windows and 64 bits compilers then the opteron will be very strong back again. However it is not fair to compare the opteron with the prescott. It is fair to compare the AMD64 with the prescott. Some AMD64 clones will be way higher clocked than opteron and have less cache. So they are cheaper to produce than opteron and will be clocking a lot higher. That of course will be an interesting duel to see with prescott.
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