Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 14:34:56 10/03/03
Go up one level in this thread
On October 03, 2003 at 15:36:22, Mridul Muralidharan wrote: > >You misinterpreted me. > >On October 03, 2003 at 14:51:24, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On October 03, 2003 at 13:38:54, Mridul Muralidharan wrote: >> >>>Hi, >>> >>> I was a bit taken aback by these declarations : >>> >>>On October 03, 2003 at 12:47:23, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>I prefer even not to care about using hash tables for pruning because my >>>>experience told me that I cannot get significant gain there easily >>> >>>Hash table not giving you pruning ? I suspect a bug in your hashkey - >>>nothingelse. >>>Or maybe it is the easily that is operative word ? >>>I think there are a lot of open source programs that you can refer to and >>>correct your bugs with - crafty , GNUChess , etc , etc. >>>Might help to get this right. >> >>I do not like to copy from other sources. >>I found that instability helped me to do my program significantly better. >> >>If I delete it in order to be able to copy from other programs then I may need >>to start by doing it significantly weaker. >> > >I did not mean - "copy" here. >Rome was not built in a day. What I meant is : >Look at their implementation - check yours. Find any obvious bugs. >I seriously suspect that there are - since hashtables not only help in pruning , >but massively help in move ordering. >If you can afford to make these statements - then your impl is horribly full of >bugs. > >As far as "instability helping" - I'm really not sure what you mean by this. As >far as I know - everyone , including me , tries to reduce instability so that >search is more stable requiring minimal search tree. >Wild extensions , unstable pruning , etc may help you in solving test suites >better and faster - but in real world games , it will suck badly. > > >>> >>> >>>>(I have a lot >>>>of stuff that means that pruning or extension is not defined only by the >>>>position). >>> >>>Where ever possible , I try to make the search behaviour as relevent to the >>>current position as possible and not rely on past search. >>>Why do you want to do the opposite ? >> >>because the opposite gives me some advantages. > >test , test , test - dont assume. >like my collegue says : When you AssUMe , you make an Ass of U and Me ;) > >>Movei has its chances against every program inspite of having bad order of moves >>and bad extensions and bad pruning. >> > >acceptance is the first step to improvement ! > >>I believe that I can get above Crafty level if I improve order of move >>extensions,pruning and evaluation. >> >>Movei already has its chances against Crafty but today crafty is significantly >>better. >> >>There is a lot to improve and the main problem is programming. >> >>Uri > > >AFAIK movei is not smp - so no point in saying search here :) >SO , other than move ordering , eval and pruning : what else is left ? interface >code ? ;) >anyone can get to crafty level or higher - IF you are willing to put in the >effort and scientifically research. >All the best - wishing to see a better Movei and a more scientific Uri :) You are talking without knowing Uri, obviously. You are also talking about commputer chess without really knowing, I fear. Uri has been talking with us about chess programs for a long time without writing one. So at the begining he came with ideas that were not really relevant, or not exactly to the point. What I like about Uri is that at some point instead of keeping talking about the subject he has started to write his own chess program. I also know that he has a very scientific, objective approach in what he does. So if I was you I would not give Uri beginners's advices like "test, test - don't assume". Because as far as I know that's exactly what he is doing. I also believe that Uri is right in not trying to get too much inspiration from other chess programs. I think you should refrain from giving lame advices to Uri and tell us instead about your achievements as a chess programmer. Christophe
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