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Subject: Re: the usual linux versus windows discussions.

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 13:26:58 10/24/03

Go up one level in this thread


hello Christophe,

as a big linux expert, and me a very poor amateur there,
i have next problem.

my monitor broke down. 19'' IIYAMA (saw some postings from Bob here and while
laughing for them my head danged against the monitor). under linux i had running
1280x1024x100Hz vertical.

my temporary replacement monitor cannot handle this frequency and tomorrow (so
in 10 hours) i want to play The King under linux and after that against Tiger.

In windows it is very easy. i bootted and pressed while booting f8. then i
used 'boot VGA mode' and then i set there a new resolution, rebooted and it
booted fine.

In linux i have no clue what to do. it automatically starts X here of course.



On October 24, 2003 at 13:36:06, Christophe Theron wrote:

>On October 24, 2003 at 10:27:16, Anthony Cozzie wrote:
>
>>On October 24, 2003 at 03:26:00, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>
>>>On October 23, 2003 at 19:42:59, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 23, 2003 at 05:55:12, Daniel Clausen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>i've tested so many toolkits and environments and really
>>>>very *little* even *works* both in linux and windows.
>>>>
>>>>when something works great for linux and also works for windows, then usually
>>>>that allows, to say very kindly, at most year 80s software to be produced for
>>>>windows.
>>>>
>>>>This where we live 2003. You can't sell something years 80 now. Not even to a
>>>>big bank organisation who works currently years 70...
>>>>
>>>>then possible sales under linux.
>>>>
>>>>Yes linux is great, but selling something under it????
>>>>
>>>>It's simply NAIVE to guess that porting an application to *nix will sell some.
>>>>All what happens is that your helpdesk will get flooded for 99% by questions
>>>>about linux and how to install it and why it doesn't work and what they have to
>>>>type.
>>>>
>>>>Even experienced linux users when i ship them a default diep version, they
>>>>simply do *not* get diep to work without extensive instructions.
>>>>
>>>>The same users *do* get diep to work under windows.
>>>>
>>>>Why?
>>>>
>>>>Because everything runs there simply.
>>>>
>>>>coming weekend i plan to play diep under linux at the dutch open championship,
>>>>but saying that linux is a commercial succes. No way. It's for nerds and very
>>>>experienced users only at the moment.
>>>>
>>>>That's very sad.
>>>>
>>>>All my hope is pointed towards the Japanese/chinese/korean government who are
>>>>creating a new OS that should go compete against microsoft.
>>>>
>>>>Linux has come a long end, but to get commercially interesting to use for mass
>>>>market products, it has a LONG way to go.
>>>>
>>>>At the moment it's only cool for companies who have system administrators and
>>>>who want to save out for simple database stuff and online stuff a lot of money
>>>>by using a linux platform + MySQL, to give a popular example.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>What I see is that I have a very capable operating system packed with loads of
>>>software that comes free, works, and replaces almost everything I was using
>>>under Windows.
>>>
>>>It is not much harder to administrate Linux than to administrate Windows on the
>>>desktop. Many Windows users are anyway absolutely unable to administrate their
>>>desktop computer.
>>>
>>>Those who are would not find much more difficult to administrate a Linux
>>>desktop.
>>>
>>>In the end the Linux user's experience is very similar to the Windows user's
>>>experience. I have been using Linux for a year now and when I work I completely
>>>forget that I'm using Linux and not Windows.
>>>
>>>I just work on my stuff, the system is stable and does not crash, so I don't
>>>even notice that I'm using that scaring geeky stuff that Linux is supposed to
>>>be.
>>>
>>>I think that's an important message to pass: Linux looks and feels like Windows.
>>>People that just use their PC for email, Internet surfing, word processing,
>>>spreadsheet and so on would not notice much difference. Those who do more and
>>>want to install programs and tune their system would have to learn a few tricks,
>>>but who could do that under Windows without first learning how to do it anyway?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Christophe
>>
>>IMO, there are several big differences between Windows and Linux:
>>
>>1. Most people learn to use a computer on Windows; the Windows GUI is what they
>>are used to.
>
>
>
>The Linux GUI I have in front of me at this time looks exactly like Windows.
>
>Somebody used to the Windows GUI will simply feel at home in front of a Linux
>PC.
>
>I could even make it look EXACTLY like Windows.
>
>
>
>
>>2. Linux apps don't present a uniform look/feel.  You can run any of 30 window
>>managers and 15 GUI toolkits. Cdbakeoven looks vastly different than gaim which
>>looks different than openoffice etc.
>
>
>
>That's true, but that's getting better.
>
>And it is not worse to the point that using those apps is a pain.
>
>It is not. The difference between apps will be for example that buttons will
>look slightly different.
>
>It will not stop you from using the application.
>
>And anyway, many Windows programs have a different look and feel anyway. For
>example I have installed a CD-burner management program on my mother's Windows
>box that followed none of the Windows GUI guidelines. There was no window frame,
>buttons were pictures, combo boxes looked weird...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>3. Microsoft spends billions in usability testing.  Linux geeks are much more
>>likely to do "cool stuff" than write documentation or worry about
>>userfriendliness.  The Linux program will contain awesome configurability and
>>run in 241kb of ram, while using 2.3% of your CPU - if you spend 5 hours reading
>>newsgroups.  The MS program will just work.
>
>
>
>My experience is that Linux program also "just work".
>
>They might be a little bit more difficult to install sometimes, that's right.
>But not that hard. For example, in order to install the latest Mozilla I had to
>install 5 packages instead of one. But installing each package was easy. And the
>documentation told me to install them all, one after the other.
>
>So I agree that it is not really state-of-the-art in term of user friendly, but
>you do not have to be a geek either.
>
>I would not describe myself as a Linux geek.
>
>
>
>
>>Linux has made a *lot* of strides in usability.  When I first installed linux 4
>>years ago, I had to hand-edit my XF86Config file.  There was no Mplayer or XMMS
>>or whatnot.  In a year or two, you might be right.  But I think you are vastly
>>overestimating the computer expertise most people possess.
>>
>>anthony
>
>
>
>I know most people do not know how to administrate their system.
>
>So they have to ask expert friends.
>
>Most people do not know how to install Windows programs and will have it done by
>somebody else.
>
>If I had installed Linux on my mother's PC, she could use it every day without
>even noticing it's Linux.
>
>I have not installed Linux on her PC because we are several thousands miles
>apart. So if there is a problem on her machine I could not fix it myself, and as
>there are at this time more people able to fix Windows than people able to fix
>Linux, I have decided that it was safer for her to continue with Windows.
>
>So the problem is not that Linux is more difficult to use. It is not.
>
>It is not that it is harder to administrate. It is indeed a little bit harder to
>administrate but not really a problem for somebody who can administrate a
>Windows system.
>
>The problem is lack of availability of trained technicians.
>
>It is a problem, but it will get better with time. And I would not say it is a
>problem related to the quality of the product.
>
>
>
>
>>P.S. When is CT for linux coming out?
>
>
>
>Some day... I cannot give you a release date because it is not my highest
>priority, so other projects are advancing faster.
>
>
>
>
>    Christophe



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