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Subject: Re: Movei - Genius 2 : 1-6 with 1 draw

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 10:28:02 10/26/03

Go up one level in this thread


On October 26, 2003 at 13:11:26, Christophe Theron wrote:

>On October 26, 2003 at 12:12:33, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On October 26, 2003 at 11:10:14, Peter Berger wrote:
>>
>>>Maybe I should have posted this in WinBoard forum, but the diagram feature is so
>>>much nicer here :)
>>>
>>>This is the first match in (planned at least ;) ) a little series between modern
>>>middle-class amateur engines and old professionals.
>>>
>>>Genius 2 played on a PIV2.2GHz, 32MB Hash, tournament.bok used.
>>>Movei (17.10.03) played on a PIV1.8GHz, 16MB Hash. It used the book of the
>>>public version and the s parameter.
>>
>>How much hardware advantage does it give for Genius?
>>
>>can you compare nodes per seconds for Genius and movei?
>>
>>>
>>>Time control was game in half an hour.
>>>
>>>It was a surprisingly one-sided match where Movei was without any real chances.
>>
>>From looking at few game it seems that movei had chances but blundered.
>>
>>In game 1 movei could draw by tablebases
>>but blundered with 42...Kf6(it did not know that KQ vs KP is a draw when the
>>pawn is in the 7th and when it played 42...Kf6 it could not search deep enough
>>to see the promotion of white).
>>
>>In game 2 movei also blundered in an endgame that is not clear(Fritz8 says that
>>white is better before 39.Ne5 but movei needs too much time to avoid that move).
>>
>>Movei could play 39.Re7 h3 40.Re2 Rg2 41.Re1 f6 42.gxf6 gxf6 43.Rh1 h2 44.Nd4
>>
>>and yace could learn from that line almost a draw score for white.
>>
>>I still did not look at the rest of the games but from the positions that you
>>posted in game 7 and 8 it is clear that movei also had chances in these games
>>and maybe time control of x minutes/y moves could be better for it but I need to
>>check if it can avoid the mistakes in case of searching one ply deeper.
>>
>>>
>>>A few comments:
>>>
>>>Genius 2 was the first chessprogram I bought. At this time I had a mighty
>>>386SX20, and its play impressed me much, kind of a first love.
>>>I just loved its passive and accurate play, and the endgame looked very strong
>>>to me.
>>>
>>>a.) While later Genius version were stronger in the past I am not sure if this
>>>will also turn out to be the truth on current hardware.
>>>The branching factor of Genius 2 looks much better than what I am used to with
>>>later versions (untested impression). It was only mildly outsearched by
>>>movei (1-2 ply), in the endgame it actually searched deeper than its opponent
>>>most of the time.
>>>
>>>b.) Movei suffered some in the opening. The opening book used  for it wasn't too
>>>impressive. Still its one victory was clearly a book win in fact :), when Genius
>>>couldn't find the right moves in time to justify the good opening line it had
>>>chosen ( Round 6).
>>>
>>>c.) Movei's time management is unconventional. While it plays a little too fast
>>>in general, it doesn't seem to have an upper limit (or it is very high) for the
>>>time to finish a ply.
>>
>>The upper limit is half of the time that it has in the clock to finish the game
>>or the time control.
>>
>>>This made it think on 14. O-O in game 6 for _several_ minutes for example,
>>>because it was so eager to finish ply 12. Maybe this could be improved.
>>
>>I learned this from Amir Ban who said that it is a bad idea to finish search in
>>the middle of the iteration.
>>
>>Uri
>
>
>
>I don't agree with Amir here.
>
>I think it is important to finish the first move of the iteration you have
>started, so at least you know if there is something wrong about this move.
>
>If it is the case (the score drops significantly from the previous iteration),
>extend the time. Let it search very long if needed, so it either finds a better
>move or finishes the iteration.
>
>If the score of the first move is better or does not drop much (from the
>previous iteration) and you have exceeded your target time, stop the search and
>play that move.
>
>
>
>    Christophe

You may be right but I am not sure about it.

I agree that it is more important to finish the iteration when the score drops
(after fail low) relative to the case when the score does not drop much
but  I still believe that there is an advantage in finishing at the end of the
iteration.

The point is that I am not sure if it is a good idea to waste time to search the
first move when in most cases the score does not drop significantly only to find
a case when the scores drops significantly.


Maybe I should have a combination of both methods.
The idea is that I may decide to stop to search if I finish the iteration in
more than 20 seconds and also stop to search in case that the score did not drop
and I already used more than 50 seconds.

Uri





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