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Subject: Re: ICT 4 Leiden : King vs Ruffian : Ruffian wins

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 09:05:46 04/24/04

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On April 24, 2004 at 10:15:30, Djordje Vidanovic wrote:

>On April 24, 2004 at 09:41:27, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On April 24, 2004 at 09:18:27, Djordje Vidanovic wrote:
>>
>>>On April 24, 2004 at 08:47:42, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 24, 2004 at 08:07:48, Djordje Vidanovic wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 24, 2004 at 07:32:32, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On April 24, 2004 at 07:04:44, Johan Havegheer wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hello
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ruffian won against The King in a tremendous endgame
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>To djordje : Everything is working fine, out off book against Hydra yesterday
>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>>+ 0.56
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>We lost against Hydra due to the depth and a wrong plan in the endgame
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What do you mean that you lost due to the depth.
>>>>>>Did Ruffian need another ply to avoid the losing blunder?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Ruffian reaches ply 18 easily here, but it still clings on to gxh4.  It needs
>>>>>play 19 to see that things are not peachy. (BTW, Hydra was doing a 20 ply search
>>>>>here.)  But I doubt that a single CPU version of Ruffian could actually avoid
>>>>>the move at the Leiden time controls anyway.  As already pointed out some other
>>>>>programs also go for the pawn.  What does Movei do?
>>>>>
>>>>>Djordje
>>>>
>>>>     I doubt that it's a matter of depth and would rather say
>>>>     it's a matter of chess knowledge.
>>>>     Kurt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I tend to disagree with you here. I'm pretty sure that Ruffian has more endgame
>>>knowledge than Hydra :-).  Another issue crops up here -- and I think that we
>>>will disagree on that one too:  I think that deep search = knowledge (good
>>>examples can be Deep Blue and, nowadays, Hydra).  But this is more of a
>>>philosophical issue and I'd like to spare both you and the CCC membership as the
>>>issue can easily turn into a flame war.
>>>
>>>Thanks for the insight anyway.
>>
>>What about knowledge of better time management?
>>gxh4 increase the number of passed pawns for both sides so you can decide to use
>>more time when you plan to make a move that increase the number of passed pawns
>>of both sides.
>>
>>Uri
>
>
>You made a very good point.  However, if I remember correctly, Ruffian used
>quite a lot of time for gxh4 but could not find a better continuation.
>
>I also wanted to add that my comment regarding Hydra's endgame knowledge was
>rather unfortunate and incorrect. It was based on speculation, as I presumed
>that speed was what mattered most in Hydra.  After talking to Alexander Kure on
>playchess.com today I found out that Ch. Donninger had implemented lots of
>endgame knowledge in Hydra, so that h4! was to be expected.  Thus I apologise
>for my unfounded speculation :-).
>
>Djordje

Movei also cannot find something better even after hours on P850 inspite of
seeing negative evaluation against white.

depth=16 -0.16 g3h4 f5f4 b3c2 c7h7 c2d1 e5c6 c3h3 e6e5 d1e2 e5e4 h4h5 c6d4 e2f1
e4e3 h5h6 f6e6 f1e1
Nodes: 1579659624 NPS: 179573
Time: 02:26:36.75

Movei used only 32 mbytes hash but I do not think that it is very important and
movei is not very sensitive for hash tables.

Uri



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