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Subject: Re: ICT 4 Leiden : King vs Ruffian : Ruffian wins

Author: Djordje Vidanovic

Date: 07:15:30 04/24/04

Go up one level in this thread


On April 24, 2004 at 09:41:27, Uri Blass wrote:

>On April 24, 2004 at 09:18:27, Djordje Vidanovic wrote:
>
>>On April 24, 2004 at 08:47:42, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>>
>>>On April 24, 2004 at 08:07:48, Djordje Vidanovic wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 24, 2004 at 07:32:32, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 24, 2004 at 07:04:44, Johan Havegheer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hello
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ruffian won against The King in a tremendous endgame
>>>>>>
>>>>>>To djordje : Everything is working fine, out off book against Hydra yesterday
>>>>>>with
>>>>>>+ 0.56
>>>>>>
>>>>>>We lost against Hydra due to the depth and a wrong plan in the endgame
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>What do you mean that you lost due to the depth.
>>>>>Did Ruffian need another ply to avoid the losing blunder?
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ruffian reaches ply 18 easily here, but it still clings on to gxh4.  It needs
>>>>play 19 to see that things are not peachy. (BTW, Hydra was doing a 20 ply search
>>>>here.)  But I doubt that a single CPU version of Ruffian could actually avoid
>>>>the move at the Leiden time controls anyway.  As already pointed out some other
>>>>programs also go for the pawn.  What does Movei do?
>>>>
>>>>Djordje
>>>
>>>     I doubt that it's a matter of depth and would rather say
>>>     it's a matter of chess knowledge.
>>>     Kurt
>>
>>
>>
>>I tend to disagree with you here. I'm pretty sure that Ruffian has more endgame
>>knowledge than Hydra :-).  Another issue crops up here -- and I think that we
>>will disagree on that one too:  I think that deep search = knowledge (good
>>examples can be Deep Blue and, nowadays, Hydra).  But this is more of a
>>philosophical issue and I'd like to spare both you and the CCC membership as the
>>issue can easily turn into a flame war.
>>
>>Thanks for the insight anyway.
>
>What about knowledge of better time management?
>gxh4 increase the number of passed pawns for both sides so you can decide to use
>more time when you plan to make a move that increase the number of passed pawns
>of both sides.
>
>Uri


You made a very good point.  However, if I remember correctly, Ruffian used
quite a lot of time for gxh4 but could not find a better continuation.

I also wanted to add that my comment regarding Hydra's endgame knowledge was
rather unfortunate and incorrect. It was based on speculation, as I presumed
that speed was what mattered most in Hydra.  After talking to Alexander Kure on
playchess.com today I found out that Ch. Donninger had implemented lots of
endgame knowledge in Hydra, so that h4! was to be expected.  Thus I apologise
for my unfounded speculation :-).

Djordje





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