Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 21:09:54 05/08/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 08, 2004 at 23:21:20, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >On May 08, 2004 at 15:54:47, Uri Blass wrote: > >So your assumption is that if movei does play a move at 14 ply then it cannot be >a blunder? > Don't you make that same stupid mistake every day? "Diep gives up on that after 5 plies" and so forth? Pot? Kettle? Practice what you preach? Etc??? >>On May 08, 2004 at 15:41:07, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On May 08, 2004 at 13:10:10, Sune Fischer wrote: >>> >>>>On May 08, 2004 at 12:39:03, Anthony Cozzie wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>As I said before, the first two moves are "pass" moves. I don't think they are >>>>>actively bad, they just do nothing. GMs do not play pass moves. Current top >>>>>programs rarely play them. Deep Blue played 3 or 4 in a row ;) >>>> >>>>I think that depends on the position. >>>>Take a look at the Fritz/Junior games against Kramnik and Kasparov, I think they >>>>had plenty of pass moves from both programs, the Hedgehog just being one of >>>>them. >>>> >>>>>>Ruffian 1.0.5 UCI1 15 MB: >>>>>> 6 00:00 -0,01 Qa5c5 Ra1c1 Bc7d6 b3b4 Qc5b5 Nh4f3 >>>>>> 7 00:00 -0,05 Qa5c5 Ra1c1 e6e5 g3g4 Bh5g6 Nh4xg6 f7xg6 Kg1h1 >>>>>> 8 00:01 0,00 Qa5c5 Ra1c1 Qc5e7 Rc1a1 Qe7d6 Nh4f3 Qd6c5 Ra1c1 e6e5 >>>>>> 8 00:02 0,03 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 b3b4 Qa5a4 Nf3d4 g4xh3 Bg2xh3 Nf6g4 >>>>>> 9 00:02 0,04 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 h3xg4 Nf6xg4 b3b4 Qa5a4 Nd2b3 Nd7e5 Nf3xe5 >>>>>>10 00:04 0,05 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 h3xg4 Nf6xg4 Nf3d4 c6c5 Nd4e2 Bc7e5 Bb2xe5 >>>>>>Nd7xe5 Ne2f4 >>>>>>11 00:08 -0,04 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 h3xg4 Nf6xg4 c2c4 d5xc4 Nd2xc4 Qa5f5 e3e4 >>>>>>Qf5c5 Kg1h1 >>>>>>11 00:16 -0,02 Qa5c5 Ra1c1 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 d3d4 Qc5b5 c2c4 d5xc4 h3xg4 >>>>>>Nf6xg4 Rc1xc4 >>>>>> >>>>>>How deep is the fail-low for Zappa on g5? >>>>>>A "blunder" should be >1 pawn, IMO. >>>>> >>>>>Ruffian plays g5 for all of 8 seconds :) Deep Blue had 3 minutes to think. >>>> >>>>Here is a bit longer analysis, it switches back: >>>> >>>>Ruffian 1.0.5 UCI1 62 MB: >>>> 7 00:00 -0,05 Qa5c5 Ra1c1 e6e5 g3g4 Bh5g6 Nh4xg6 f7xg6 Kg1h1 >>>> 8 00:01 0,00 Qa5c5 Ra1c1 Qc5e7 Rc1a1 Qe7d6 Nh4f3 Qd6c5 Ra1c1 e6e5 >>>> 8 00:02 0,03 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 b3b4 Qa5a4 Nf3d4 g4xh3 Bg2xh3 Nf6g4 >>>> 9 00:03 0,04 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 h3xg4 Nf6xg4 b3b4 Qa5a4 Nd2b3 Nd7e5 Nf3xe5 >>>>10 00:04 0,05 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 h3xg4 Nf6xg4 Nf3d4 c6c5 Nd4e2 Bc7e5 Bb2xe5 >>>>Nd7xe5 Ne2f4 >>>>11 00:09 -0,04 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 h3xg4 Nf6xg4 c2c4 d5xc4 Nd2xc4 Qa5f5 e3e4 >>>>Qf5c5 Kg1h1 >>>>11 00:16 -0,02 Qa5c5 Ra1c1 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 d3d4 Qc5b5 c2c4 d5xc4 h3xg4 >>>>Nf6xg4 Rc1xc4 >>>>12 00:38 -0,04 Qa5c5 g3g4 Bh5g6 Ra1c1 Bg6h7 Kg1h1 e6e5 Nh4f5 Bh7xf5 g4xf5 >>>>g7g6 f5xg6 f7xg6 Rf1g1 >>>>12 00:48 0,01 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 h3xg4 Bh5xg4 d3d4 Qa5b5 a3a4 Qb5b6 e3e4 d5xe4 >>>>Nf3h2 Bg4f5 Nd2xe4 >>>>13 01:38 -0,02 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 h3xg4 Nf6xg4 Nf3d4 Qa5b6 f2f3 Ng4f6 g3g4 >>>>Bh5g6 Kg1h1 c6c5 Nd4e2 >>>>14 04:02 0,03 g7g5 Nh4f3 g5g4 h3xg4 Nf6xg4 e3e4 e6e5 e4xd5 c6xd5 c2c4 Ra8e8 >>>>Nf3h4 Nd7f6 c4xd5 Nf6xd5 Nh4f5 >>> >>>I can add that movei likes g5 as the best move for black so I do not believe >>>that it is a blunder. >>> >>>The people who claim that it is a blunder did not show how to beat chess program >>>after this blunder so I cannot take their analysis as serious. >>> >>>I will take analysis of GM's as serious if after claiming that a move is a >>>blunder they will give a game to show how they beat chess programs after the >>>blunder. >>> >>>Uri >> >>I can add that kasparov won the game but I do not claim that deeper blue did no >>mistakes but only that I do not believe that g5 was one of them and the question >>is if humans can beat computers when computers do not repeat the mistakes that >>deeper blue did later. >> >> >>Movei still likes g5 even at depth 14 so it seems to me not to be a bad move. >> >>I did not teach movei to have big panalty against pushing pawns near the king >>and there are games when movei wins by pushing the pawns near the king forward. >> >>Here is one of them against mchess >> >>http://f50.parsimony.net/forum200336/messages/1757.htm
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