Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 06:45:20 05/10/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 10, 2004 at 09:42:09, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >On May 10, 2004 at 08:11:34, Sune Fischer wrote: > >>On May 10, 2004 at 07:33:38, martin fierz wrote: >> >>>there are instances where pushing pawns in front of your king is ok. there are >>>others where it's not ok. they are rather easy to distinguish most of the time >>>(some simple rules are sufficient for this) and i'm surprised that you don't >>>understand that it's not such a great idea here... >> >>Rules of thumb are good but not great, there are always exceptions and computers >>are experts at finding them. It is possible that all other moves simply lose >>faster. >> >>>i know you are a born >>>skeptic, but perhaps you should learn to trust people with more experience >>>sometimes :-) >> >>Sometimes, but maybe not this time ;) >>Just look at the thread below >>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?364474 >> >>I don't 100% trust analysis made without computer assistance, even when it comes >>from GM's. It is only too human to err. >> >>>i'm not going as far as vincent of course to say that "after ...g5 white wins >>>with eyes shut". that is not true of course. but it's obvious that things aren't >>>progressing normally here if you have to play ...g5. >> >>I think the original intent was to show that DB was not at the level of "modern" >>programs _because_ it played g5. Now we have other programs playing it too so >>this bit of "proof" goes out the window, IMO. > >However it played like 7 very poor moves in game 1 and that for every game >except game 6 and game 2 it just made a few (shuffle moves are not good but are >not losing the game sometimes). > >Antonnie just quoted here what was wrong in his eyes, but there is a shitload of >other very poor moves. > >Let me just first tell you that deep blue was very soon out of book. > >Starting with move 3 where it already makes a mistake : > >3 .. Nd7? best is bxf3 diep plays bxf3 and not nd7. >10.. h6? very poor move. lucky diep doesn't play that. 10..e5 looks better > but important is to avoid h6 >11.. Qa5? very poor move, better is for example Qe7 >12.. Bc7? very poor move. A real NULLMOVE >13.. g5? very poor move now there is no way to escape from a zero against > even poor shuffle players >16.. Qb6 this is not the best move >22.. g4? > >I hope you realize Seirawan had an easy job commenting on these games. The bad >moves made are *so* poor, that he has hardly time to give better alternatives >for choice mistakes like 16..Qb6. > >I am sure you do not realize it, but if you play 2 moves like Qb6 against >kasparov in a normal game you're dead. > >Deep Blue plays however 6 completely losing moves in this game so all the poor >moves we do not even discuss here. We just discuss at the utmost beginners level >here. Not even at the higher levels where making wrong choices loses already. > >Best regards, >Vincent by the way, i hope you realize in game 1, kasparov also played utmost beginners level. He later complained a few years later that he had to do so much effort to lose that first game and didn't manage to lose it despite that. Kasparov was very upset about him doing so many poor shuffle moves and still winning the game.
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