Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 14:48:35 05/17/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 17, 2004 at 15:26:58, Anthony Cozzie wrote: >On May 17, 2004 at 00:12:58, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On May 14, 2004 at 20:43:01, Anthony Cozzie wrote: >> >>>On May 14, 2004 at 20:31:25, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >>> >>>>On May 14, 2004 at 18:26:54, Amir Ban wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 14, 2004 at 12:32:26, Matthew Hull wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On May 14, 2004 at 12:16:57, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On May 13, 2004 at 20:17:42, Russell Reagan wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Not anyone can play. Only people who have several thousand dollars and two >>>>>>weeks >>to burn can play. I don't know many people in that situation, or at >>>>>>least if >>they are in that situation and participated, the locks would be >>>>>>changed when >>they returned home from the trip :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>FYI, travel costs and hardware are sponsored by the organisation. >>>>>> >>>>>>No, they are not. $2000 dollars is not sponsored by the organization, neither >>>>>>the hotel, nor the paid time off for two weeks. The entire situation is >>>>>>calculated to discourage American participation. The physical format is >>>>>>calculated to permit cheating, as was done with the illeagal throwing of a >>>>>>drawn game to the eventual "winner". It is a corrupt establishment designed to >>>>>>cater to European interests, and to snub Americans. >>>>>>It is therefore an irrelevant contest, just like the FIDE World Championship is >>>>>>completely irrelevant. >>>>>>:) >>>>>> >>>>>>CCT is now the venue for true WORLD comptetition, instead of just European >>>>>>competition. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>No it's not. I will come to CCT to experiment, if I come at all. Others don't >>>>>bother to show up, and why should they ? It's not a major event. >>>>> >>>>>CCT is a bit like Biel: crowded and noisy, with a few good players. But don't >>>>>mistake Biel for Wijk an Zee. >>>>> >>>>>Which reminds me that no major chess tournament takes place in the USA nowadays. >>>>>All the major tournaments are in Europe, but I don't hear you saying that >>>>>Kaidanov and Stripunsky are the world's best. >>>>> >>>>>Amir >>>> >>>>Quite a few top chess events have been held in the U.S. - '95 Kasparov-Anand, >>>>'89 or so Kasparov-Karpov, '99 FIDE knockouts, three man-machine championships. >>>> >>>>But no WCCCs. >>>> >>>>Ok it's probably just a coincidence - but IMO the complaints are understandable. >>>> >>>>Vas >>> >>>The complaints are understandable. Heck, *I* have a problem with it :) But the >>>people claiming CCT has superceded the WCCC are simply living in a dream world . >>>. . >>> >>>anthony >> >> >>CCT is going (note is going, not already has) to accomplish two things: >> >>1. encourage participation from around the world, not just from around Europe. >> >>2. Eventually make the WCCC irrelevant. We already have 3x the participants. >>We've had most commercial programs in the events. >> >>The problem is the internet vs international travel. A 2-3 day game conference >>would be nice, maybe with the last 2-3 rounds of the event played in the >>evenings. But two weeks is simply beyond ridiculous with the idea of >>encouraging _new_ participants. If my first tournament had involved >>international travel for two weeks, I certainly would not have had a first >>tournament. A commercial chess programmer might be able to make that as it is a >>primary mission for his company. Locals might make it. But the cost is a real >>issue. >> >>That is where the ICCA is completely missing the boat. They are supposed to be >>encouraging development of computer chess programs. Just read the charter. >>They are failing in at least one regard, for that essential mission (that is >>_the_ reason we originally formed the ICCA, regardless of what they might >>suggest. _I_ was actually there when we agreed to form it.) Somehow that got >>lost in the shuffle. It started in the dirty days of the commercial section of >>the WMCCC and has led the ICCA farther astray from its primary _mission_. >> >>But that's OK. CCT will likely continue to do better and better. And actually >>have an international collection of participants, both experienced and new >>participants as well... >> >>At a price that beginners, newcomers and students can afford. That is a big key >>issue... >> >>There was great discussion when we started adding a 5th round to ACM events. >>Because it makes it harder and harder to take off to participate. Now we are at >>two weeks. By 2020 it will be a full-time year-round job it would seem... >> >>You should _first_ decide who you are trying to attract, then define the event >>that will do this. Not first worry about how many rounds and how to occupy two >>weeks, and then see who will come... If the WCCC had started at 2 weeks, it >>would not have survived the first event. Where this "idea" came from is beyond >>me. At least through 1989 they were 5 rounds period. And getting to them was >>not a problem due to time off, and by bouncing between NA and Europe every 6 >>years there was a WCCC "on continent" if you could not travel internationally >>due to cost. >> >>But those were the days when the programmers were actually the people making the >>decisions and running the organization. It's drifted far away from that... > >I completely agree with the length issue. There are simply too many rounds in >the current format. At WCCC03 I thought the top programs all won their last 5 >games in a row anyway. If the system is automated, it is easily possible to >play 2 games per day (all you have to do is watch). Perhaps a time control of >90 minutes for the first 40 moves plus 90 minutes for the rest of the game. So a >1/2/1/2/1 format would give 7 rounds (about the right length, I think) in 5 >days. That would also give some time for sightseeing or other stuff. For reasons only they know, the ICGA is _not_ going to go to an automated format, where everybody has to have support for a chess server, and they set up a local FICS server in the tournament hall. Why this can't be done is beyond me since it is _exactly_ what we do in the CCT events. Another example of "dinosaurian thinking" as this has been easy to do for at least 10+ years. I started working with the old xboard, and with Tim Mann, to add features so that the current protocol idea was started and now is more than adequate to play games on a server, as many of us prove daily. It can be done. Why they refuse to do it and let all the nonsensical TD decisions and player interference and other things detract from the event is beyond any sane explanation. So let's just call it insanity and leave it there. :) > >I certainly agree that CCT has done much more to foster amateur engines than >WCCC. But printing "2006 World Computer Champion" on the box just sounds so >much better than "CCT-8 Champion". Perhaps we can call this "the Internet World Computer Chess Championship". > >anthony
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