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Subject: Re: Where's Hydra?

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 00:01:06 05/21/04

Go up one level in this thread


On May 20, 2004 at 20:03:30, Amir Ban wrote:

>On May 20, 2004 at 15:10:25, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On May 20, 2004 at 11:14:49, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>
>>>On May 19, 2004 at 18:08:44, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 17:18:11, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 17:07:34, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 16:02:53, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 15:55:04, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 14:31:41, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 13:29:38, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 06:14:12, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 06:07:45, Bryan Hofmann wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 05:33:50, Richard Pijl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 05:05:54, Jouni Uski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Number 1 favourite is missing, why?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jouni
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hydra is officially from the UAE. As I understood the sponsors do not allow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hydra to participate in an event in Israel.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Richard.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Someone please tell me that this is a rumor or missunderstanding. They banned a
>>>>>>>>>>>>chess engine from participation due to the country of its creator?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Exactly the opposite. We (organizers) told the Hydra team that they are welcomed
>>>>>>>>>>>to play in Israel under the UAE flag. But apparently their sponsors decided that
>>>>>>>>>>>they don't want to play in Israel.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Last time an engine was banned from participation due to the country of its
>>>>>>>>>>>creator was in Jakarta WMCCC 1996. The Junior team was not allowed to play there
>>>>>>>>>>>because Junior is an Israeli program.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I was under the impression that was not exactly the truth, the whold truth and
>>>>>>>>>>nothing but the truth.  In fact, Junior was expected there.  I received a phone
>>>>>>>>>>call in the wee hours of the morning from Bruce Moreland, asking me to help him
>>>>>>>>>>contact Amir since they had not shown up.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I believe this was a case of "they didn't feel welcome and chose not to attend
>>>>>>>>>>for that reason."  IE I can't really fault someone for not wanting to fly a UAE
>>>>>>>>>>flag in the middle of Israel either.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>So, IMHO it was more a matter of they didn't participate for many good reasons,
>>>>>>>>>>but I don't think they were _prevented_ from participating...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Based on what I have read and heard, it was made clear to them that they cannot
>>>>>>>>>play under the Israeli flag in Jakarta. In other words, they were prevented from
>>>>>>>>>participation. Of course Amir or Shay can correct me if I'm wrong.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Probably was (a) a sane decision to not fly an Israeli flag there and (b) a
>>>>>>>>reasonable decision for them not to attend if they could not.  As I said, a bit
>>>>>>>>of both...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I quoted Shay Bushinsky in the following post:
>>>>>>>http://talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?366082
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Based on that, it was not a decision on behalf of the Junior team not to attend,
>>>>>>>they were simply *banned* from participation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>reread what you posted.  They were not "banned".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Unless you redefine banned to mean something other than "not allowed".  As I
>>>>>>said, they could have participated, not representing Israel.
>>>>>
>>>>>"not representing Israel", in other words *banned* from playing as Israeli
>>>>>representatives. What's hard to understand about that?
>>>>
>>>>Are you really that dense, or just acting so to prolong a discussion?
>>>>
>>>>"banned" means "not allowed to participate, _period_.  It does not mean "not
>>>>allowed to participate under flag XXX or anything else".  It means "not allowed
>>>>to participate."
>>>>
>>>>What is so hard to understand about using _proper_ definitions and terms?
>>>>
>>>>Yes they were _hindered_ from participating.  Or they were even discouraged from
>>>>participating.  But they were not _banned_ from participating...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The Hydra team was explicitly told that they are welcome to play under the UAE
>>>>>flag.
>>>>>
>>>>>P.S. Of course I'm not criticizing the Hydra team, as they wanted to join. The
>>>>>guys who prevented that were their UAE sponsors.
>>>>
>>>>Both decisions to not play are reasonable...
>>>
>>>And by the way, why is Hydra's political decision not to play in Israel
>>>"reasonable"?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>If I were asked to participate in a tournament in any Arab nation, do you
>>_really_ think I would do so and fly the stars and bars over my monitor?  And
>>invite every radical in the world to drop by and leave a "gift"...
>>
>>I can see their point.
>>
>>There is a major Arab/Israeli conflict going on.  I would be no more inclined to
>>wave a UAE flag in Israel than I would waving an Israeli flag on the Gaza
>>strip...
>>
>
>An Arab flag in Israel would produce no animosity.
>
>Amir

It would produce animosity but the source is arab countries.

I cannot blame an arab for not participating when he knows that his country is
going to punish him for that.

Uri



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