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Subject: Re: How about open weaponry boxing championship?

Author: Lance Perkins

Date: 16:21:45 07/13/04

Go up one level in this thread


So if engine A and engine B both run on the same AMD hardware, then the playing
field is equal? Sorry to disagree here. If engine A is optimized for AMD and
engine B is optmized for Intel, it obviously not equal. Thinker, for example, is
optmized for Intel only. Would I optmized it for AMD just to join your AMD-only
tournament? I would not. Its not fair.


On July 13, 2004 at 19:04:39, Omid David Tabibi wrote:

>On July 13, 2004 at 18:56:59, Lance Perkins wrote:
>
>>So, after all that ranting about having the "same" machine, to you, the
>>difference in processor architecture (AMD vs Intel) does not matter.
>>
>>Well, it does. So, is the AMD 3200+ (2Ghz), the same as 3.2Gz Intel?
>
>No it is not. But if all participants get the same thing it won't matter much.
>
>>Or should
>>it be a 2Ghz AMD vs 2Ghz Intel. It really gets muddy.
>
>It doesn't matter whether it is Intel or AMD, 1GHz or 2GHz, as long as it is
>equal for everyone.
>
>
>>
>>---
>>
>>On July 13, 2004 at 18:42:52, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>
>>>On July 13, 2004 at 18:37:18, Lance Perkins wrote:
>>>
>>>>Using your horse race analogy: after a horse race, are you comparing horses or
>>>>are you comparing jockeys?
>>>
>>>Both of them, assuming all participants used horses, and not donkies.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Now back to chess engines... Even on the same hardware, comparison is not
>>>>accurate. What if a program is optimized for Intel architecture, while another
>>>>is designed for AMD architecture? Picking one hardware would be unfair for one
>>>>of the engines.
>>>
>>>Most chess programs run better on AMD. But it won't matter if all of them run on
>>>Intel or all of them run on AMD (at most it will affect them by a few percentage
>>>in comparison to other programs, surely not 400%...).
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>So really, what is your definition of the "world 'computer' chess 'champion'"?
>>>>
>>>>On July 13, 2004 at 18:24:50, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 13, 2004 at 18:15:42, Lance Perkins wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Are you saying that given the same hardware, games between chess programs are
>>>>>>"fair" by your definition?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>How can it be if they use different opening books?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What people put in the code is not even the same.
>>>>>
>>>>>It depends what you want to compare. If you want to compare chess playing
>>>>>strength, then of course opening books, evaluation, etc, are all part of the
>>>>>comparison. If you want to compare hardware, then run a unique program
>>>>>(benchmark) on each hardware and compare the results.
>>>>>
>>>>>But by the current format of WCCC you don't reach any of these conclusions.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Arasan's eval code has 3700 lines of code. Thinker has less than 1000 LOC.
>>>>>>Arasan's binary is 1.3M (1300K). Thinker is 80K (less that 16 times). Have you
>>>>>>seen a boxing match between 50lb kid and a 180lb adult?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Maybe folks are having difficulty with the idea that a chess program is a
>>>>>>combination of hardware and software. Can you really do anything with just
>>>>>>sotware?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The world "computer" chess champion is the best H+S combo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Cheers...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On July 13, 2004 at 17:45:30, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On July 13, 2004 at 17:40:19, Lance Perkins wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>In a "war", that's how it is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Nobody claimed war is fair.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On July 13, 2004 at 17:38:42, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The 2004 World Boxing Championship
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Rules:
>>>>>>>>>Each participant is allowed to use whatever weaponry he would like.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Participants:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Name       Weapon
>>>>>>>>>----       ------
>>>>>>>>>Bill       no weapon
>>>>>>>>>Jack       knife
>>>>>>>>>Jonathan   handgun
>>>>>>>>>George     M16 rifle
>>>>>>>>>Robert     RPG
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>May the best boxer win!



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