Author: Omid David Tabibi
Date: 16:25:58 07/13/04
Go up one level in this thread
On July 13, 2004 at 19:21:45, Lance Perkins wrote: >So if engine A and engine B both run on the same AMD hardware, then the playing >field is equal? Sorry to disagree here. If engine A is optimized for AMD and >engine B is optmized for Intel, it obviously not equal. Thinker, for example, is >optmized for Intel only. Would I optmized it for AMD just to join your AMD-only >tournament? I would not. Its not fair. It would be safe to assume that the difference between the "optimized for AMD" and non-optimized versions wouldn't be 400%... and in fact in most cases it would be only a few percent. > > >On July 13, 2004 at 19:04:39, Omid David Tabibi wrote: > >>On July 13, 2004 at 18:56:59, Lance Perkins wrote: >> >>>So, after all that ranting about having the "same" machine, to you, the >>>difference in processor architecture (AMD vs Intel) does not matter. >>> >>>Well, it does. So, is the AMD 3200+ (2Ghz), the same as 3.2Gz Intel? >> >>No it is not. But if all participants get the same thing it won't matter much. >> >>>Or should >>>it be a 2Ghz AMD vs 2Ghz Intel. It really gets muddy. >> >>It doesn't matter whether it is Intel or AMD, 1GHz or 2GHz, as long as it is >>equal for everyone. >> >> >>> >>>--- >>> >>>On July 13, 2004 at 18:42:52, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>> >>>>On July 13, 2004 at 18:37:18, Lance Perkins wrote: >>>> >>>>>Using your horse race analogy: after a horse race, are you comparing horses or >>>>>are you comparing jockeys? >>>> >>>>Both of them, assuming all participants used horses, and not donkies. >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Now back to chess engines... Even on the same hardware, comparison is not >>>>>accurate. What if a program is optimized for Intel architecture, while another >>>>>is designed for AMD architecture? Picking one hardware would be unfair for one >>>>>of the engines. >>>> >>>>Most chess programs run better on AMD. But it won't matter if all of them run on >>>>Intel or all of them run on AMD (at most it will affect them by a few percentage >>>>in comparison to other programs, surely not 400%...). >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>So really, what is your definition of the "world 'computer' chess 'champion'"? >>>>> >>>>>On July 13, 2004 at 18:24:50, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On July 13, 2004 at 18:15:42, Lance Perkins wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Are you saying that given the same hardware, games between chess programs are >>>>>>>"fair" by your definition? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>How can it be if they use different opening books? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>What people put in the code is not even the same. >>>>>> >>>>>>It depends what you want to compare. If you want to compare chess playing >>>>>>strength, then of course opening books, evaluation, etc, are all part of the >>>>>>comparison. If you want to compare hardware, then run a unique program >>>>>>(benchmark) on each hardware and compare the results. >>>>>> >>>>>>But by the current format of WCCC you don't reach any of these conclusions. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Arasan's eval code has 3700 lines of code. Thinker has less than 1000 LOC. >>>>>>>Arasan's binary is 1.3M (1300K). Thinker is 80K (less that 16 times). Have you >>>>>>>seen a boxing match between 50lb kid and a 180lb adult? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Maybe folks are having difficulty with the idea that a chess program is a >>>>>>>combination of hardware and software. Can you really do anything with just >>>>>>>sotware? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The world "computer" chess champion is the best H+S combo. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Cheers... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>On July 13, 2004 at 17:45:30, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On July 13, 2004 at 17:40:19, Lance Perkins wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>In a "war", that's how it is. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Nobody claimed war is fair. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On July 13, 2004 at 17:38:42, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>The 2004 World Boxing Championship >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Rules: >>>>>>>>>>Each participant is allowed to use whatever weaponry he would like. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Participants: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Name Weapon >>>>>>>>>>---- ------ >>>>>>>>>>Bill no weapon >>>>>>>>>>Jack knife >>>>>>>>>>Jonathan handgun >>>>>>>>>>George M16 rifle >>>>>>>>>>Robert RPG >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>May the best boxer win!
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