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Subject: Re: c,c++5,c#.

Author: Tony Werten

Date: 07:37:24 08/12/04

Go up one level in this thread


On August 12, 2004 at 09:16:32, Omid David Tabibi wrote:

>On August 12, 2004 at 08:30:01, Tony Werten wrote:
>
>>On August 12, 2004 at 07:56:37, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>
>>>On August 12, 2004 at 03:28:58, Tony Werten wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 11, 2004 at 17:25:14, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On August 11, 2004 at 14:36:50, José Carlos wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On August 11, 2004 at 11:54:44, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On August 11, 2004 at 09:43:18, Daniel Clausen wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On August 11, 2004 at 09:42:04, gerold daniels wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>what is the best to program a chess game in. c.c++,c#. which is the easy one to
>>>>>>>>>learn and the best to program in.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I predict you will get at least 4 different answers. ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Here we go with one of them:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>For writing a chess engine you cannot expect to get a reasonably fast thing
>>>>>>>without using C/C++. And when using C++ try to avoid some expensive features of
>>>>>>>the language. Quoting Edsger Dijkstra:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Object-oriented programming is an exceptionally bad idea which could only have
>>>>>>>originated in California."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Of course I disagree with that, as there are many benefiots in OOP. But still,
>>>>>>>there is something in what he says :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If you are looking for easier languages (especially for building graphical user
>>>>>>>interfaces), Java and C# are reasonable options. Java has the advantage that it
>>>>>>>can run on any platform and is used by many major-league companies. On the other
>>>>>>>hand .NET framework will already be present in Longhorn Windows, which will ease
>>>>>>>the distribution of your programs. But at the moment, I would recommend Java
>>>>>>>over C#.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Finally, unlike Jose, I would recommend you to stay away from Visual Basic, or
>>>>>>>any other thing that has the word BASIC in it. Again quoting Edsger Dijkstra:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have
>>>>>>>had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally
>>>>>>>mutilated beyond hope of regeneration."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Teaching BASIC should be a criminal offense."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Visual Basic is a very advanced language in comparison to the primitive BASIC,
>>>>>>>but still it does mentally mutilate you :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Sargon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  That might be the reason why I'm mentally mutilated, as I first learnt BASIC
>>>>>>for the Amstrad (some centuries ago).
>>>>>
>>>>>I first learned BASIC too (actually QBASIC). And when I moved to C, my first
>>>>>programs were full of "goto". It took me some time to abandon such unhealthy
>>>>>BASIC habits.
>>>>>
>>>>>Nowadays Visual Basic is chosen for simplicity. But if my 13 years old sister
>>>>>could learn C with rather ease, then everyone can. The problem with C/C++ is
>>>>>that they don't provide an easy way for creating GUI (unlike Java, C#, Visual
>>>>>Basic, etc). That is the only advantage of Visual Basic over C for beginners.
>>>>
>>>>I have been playing with Visual C 2005 beta, and this argument isn't true
>>>>anymore. They copied the whole forms idea from Delphi.
>>>>
>>>>I always picked Delphi because it's the only fast language that can also easily
>>>>create a userinterface, but with the new Visual C this argument doesn't even
>>>>hold anymore.
>>>
>>>What is new in Visual C 2005? My latest MSVC is net2003, where they have
>>>introduced WindowsForms for C++, which is better structured than MFC, but
>>>nothing of interest for C.
>>
>>I was talking only about making a GUI in Visual C, wich was an utter disaster in
>>my last try (VC++ 5/6 ?) I think this was the main reason for succes for Delphi
>>and Visual Basic.
>
>Yes, I also had huge problems with VC++. So, I'm really interested to know what
>Visual C 2005 has in store for GUI creation. Since we are talking about C, it
>cannot be classes and WindowsForms, so is it a GUI creation wizard?

I think we are talking about different things. It's Visual C++ 2005 and it uses
classes ie a form class, a listbox class, an opendialog class etc.

You can add them in your code, but you can also throw them on a visual designer.
(wich also adds them to your code) It uses a normal .h file for it. Basicly like
CBuilder.

Tony

>
>
>
>>
>>It might already have been usable since net2003, don't know.
>>
>>Tony
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Tony
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>  But from my mutilated perspective, learning process takes place from simple to
>>>>>>difficult. Kids don't learn advanced mathematics before they learn to add and
>>>>>>substract. Learning function calls and recursion and strings with an intuitive
>>>>>>and friendly language like VB can't hurt IMO. Note that old BASIC was not
>>>>>>friendly and intuitive, and I wouldn't recommend it, but VB is really easy.
>>>>>>  But I admit I'm not a teacher, and your experience is much more relevant than
>>>>>>mine.
>>>>>>  The fact is that I can now program C, C++, Java, VB, BASIC, assembly, LISP,
>>>>>>PROLOG, SQL, Delphi... and I don't feel the order in which I learnt them put
>>>>>>extra difficulties in the learning process.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  José C.



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