Author: Tony Werten
Date: 07:37:24 08/12/04
Go up one level in this thread
On August 12, 2004 at 09:16:32, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >On August 12, 2004 at 08:30:01, Tony Werten wrote: > >>On August 12, 2004 at 07:56:37, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >> >>>On August 12, 2004 at 03:28:58, Tony Werten wrote: >>> >>>>On August 11, 2004 at 17:25:14, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 11, 2004 at 14:36:50, José Carlos wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On August 11, 2004 at 11:54:44, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On August 11, 2004 at 09:43:18, Daniel Clausen wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On August 11, 2004 at 09:42:04, gerold daniels wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>what is the best to program a chess game in. c.c++,c#. which is the easy one to >>>>>>>>>learn and the best to program in. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I predict you will get at least 4 different answers. ;) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Here we go with one of them: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>For writing a chess engine you cannot expect to get a reasonably fast thing >>>>>>>without using C/C++. And when using C++ try to avoid some expensive features of >>>>>>>the language. Quoting Edsger Dijkstra: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>"Object-oriented programming is an exceptionally bad idea which could only have >>>>>>>originated in California." >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Of course I disagree with that, as there are many benefiots in OOP. But still, >>>>>>>there is something in what he says :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>If you are looking for easier languages (especially for building graphical user >>>>>>>interfaces), Java and C# are reasonable options. Java has the advantage that it >>>>>>>can run on any platform and is used by many major-league companies. On the other >>>>>>>hand .NET framework will already be present in Longhorn Windows, which will ease >>>>>>>the distribution of your programs. But at the moment, I would recommend Java >>>>>>>over C#. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Finally, unlike Jose, I would recommend you to stay away from Visual Basic, or >>>>>>>any other thing that has the word BASIC in it. Again quoting Edsger Dijkstra: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>"It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have >>>>>>>had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally >>>>>>>mutilated beyond hope of regeneration." >>>>>>> >>>>>>>and >>>>>>> >>>>>>>"Teaching BASIC should be a criminal offense." >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Visual Basic is a very advanced language in comparison to the primitive BASIC, >>>>>>>but still it does mentally mutilate you :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Sargon >>>>>> >>>>>> That might be the reason why I'm mentally mutilated, as I first learnt BASIC >>>>>>for the Amstrad (some centuries ago). >>>>> >>>>>I first learned BASIC too (actually QBASIC). And when I moved to C, my first >>>>>programs were full of "goto". It took me some time to abandon such unhealthy >>>>>BASIC habits. >>>>> >>>>>Nowadays Visual Basic is chosen for simplicity. But if my 13 years old sister >>>>>could learn C with rather ease, then everyone can. The problem with C/C++ is >>>>>that they don't provide an easy way for creating GUI (unlike Java, C#, Visual >>>>>Basic, etc). That is the only advantage of Visual Basic over C for beginners. >>>> >>>>I have been playing with Visual C 2005 beta, and this argument isn't true >>>>anymore. They copied the whole forms idea from Delphi. >>>> >>>>I always picked Delphi because it's the only fast language that can also easily >>>>create a userinterface, but with the new Visual C this argument doesn't even >>>>hold anymore. >>> >>>What is new in Visual C 2005? My latest MSVC is net2003, where they have >>>introduced WindowsForms for C++, which is better structured than MFC, but >>>nothing of interest for C. >> >>I was talking only about making a GUI in Visual C, wich was an utter disaster in >>my last try (VC++ 5/6 ?) I think this was the main reason for succes for Delphi >>and Visual Basic. > >Yes, I also had huge problems with VC++. So, I'm really interested to know what >Visual C 2005 has in store for GUI creation. Since we are talking about C, it >cannot be classes and WindowsForms, so is it a GUI creation wizard? I think we are talking about different things. It's Visual C++ 2005 and it uses classes ie a form class, a listbox class, an opendialog class etc. You can add them in your code, but you can also throw them on a visual designer. (wich also adds them to your code) It uses a normal .h file for it. Basicly like CBuilder. Tony > > > >> >>It might already have been usable since net2003, don't know. >> >>Tony >> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Tony >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> But from my mutilated perspective, learning process takes place from simple to >>>>>>difficult. Kids don't learn advanced mathematics before they learn to add and >>>>>>substract. Learning function calls and recursion and strings with an intuitive >>>>>>and friendly language like VB can't hurt IMO. Note that old BASIC was not >>>>>>friendly and intuitive, and I wouldn't recommend it, but VB is really easy. >>>>>> But I admit I'm not a teacher, and your experience is much more relevant than >>>>>>mine. >>>>>> The fact is that I can now program C, C++, Java, VB, BASIC, assembly, LISP, >>>>>>PROLOG, SQL, Delphi... and I don't feel the order in which I learnt them put >>>>>>extra difficulties in the learning process. >>>>>> >>>>>> José C.
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