Author: Omid David Tabibi
Date: 06:16:32 08/12/04
Go up one level in this thread
On August 12, 2004 at 08:30:01, Tony Werten wrote: >On August 12, 2004 at 07:56:37, Omid David Tabibi wrote: > >>On August 12, 2004 at 03:28:58, Tony Werten wrote: >> >>>On August 11, 2004 at 17:25:14, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>> >>>>On August 11, 2004 at 14:36:50, José Carlos wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 11, 2004 at 11:54:44, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On August 11, 2004 at 09:43:18, Daniel Clausen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On August 11, 2004 at 09:42:04, gerold daniels wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>what is the best to program a chess game in. c.c++,c#. which is the easy one to >>>>>>>>learn and the best to program in. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I predict you will get at least 4 different answers. ;) >>>>>> >>>>>>Here we go with one of them: >>>>>> >>>>>>For writing a chess engine you cannot expect to get a reasonably fast thing >>>>>>without using C/C++. And when using C++ try to avoid some expensive features of >>>>>>the language. Quoting Edsger Dijkstra: >>>>>> >>>>>>"Object-oriented programming is an exceptionally bad idea which could only have >>>>>>originated in California." >>>>>> >>>>>>Of course I disagree with that, as there are many benefiots in OOP. But still, >>>>>>there is something in what he says :) >>>>>> >>>>>>If you are looking for easier languages (especially for building graphical user >>>>>>interfaces), Java and C# are reasonable options. Java has the advantage that it >>>>>>can run on any platform and is used by many major-league companies. On the other >>>>>>hand .NET framework will already be present in Longhorn Windows, which will ease >>>>>>the distribution of your programs. But at the moment, I would recommend Java >>>>>>over C#. >>>>>> >>>>>>Finally, unlike Jose, I would recommend you to stay away from Visual Basic, or >>>>>>any other thing that has the word BASIC in it. Again quoting Edsger Dijkstra: >>>>>> >>>>>>"It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have >>>>>>had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally >>>>>>mutilated beyond hope of regeneration." >>>>>> >>>>>>and >>>>>> >>>>>>"Teaching BASIC should be a criminal offense." >>>>>> >>>>>>Visual Basic is a very advanced language in comparison to the primitive BASIC, >>>>>>but still it does mentally mutilate you :) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Sargon >>>>> >>>>> That might be the reason why I'm mentally mutilated, as I first learnt BASIC >>>>>for the Amstrad (some centuries ago). >>>> >>>>I first learned BASIC too (actually QBASIC). And when I moved to C, my first >>>>programs were full of "goto". It took me some time to abandon such unhealthy >>>>BASIC habits. >>>> >>>>Nowadays Visual Basic is chosen for simplicity. But if my 13 years old sister >>>>could learn C with rather ease, then everyone can. The problem with C/C++ is >>>>that they don't provide an easy way for creating GUI (unlike Java, C#, Visual >>>>Basic, etc). That is the only advantage of Visual Basic over C for beginners. >>> >>>I have been playing with Visual C 2005 beta, and this argument isn't true >>>anymore. They copied the whole forms idea from Delphi. >>> >>>I always picked Delphi because it's the only fast language that can also easily >>>create a userinterface, but with the new Visual C this argument doesn't even >>>hold anymore. >> >>What is new in Visual C 2005? My latest MSVC is net2003, where they have >>introduced WindowsForms for C++, which is better structured than MFC, but >>nothing of interest for C. > >I was talking only about making a GUI in Visual C, wich was an utter disaster in >my last try (VC++ 5/6 ?) I think this was the main reason for succes for Delphi >and Visual Basic. Yes, I also had huge problems with VC++. So, I'm really interested to know what Visual C 2005 has in store for GUI creation. Since we are talking about C, it cannot be classes and WindowsForms, so is it a GUI creation wizard? > >It might already have been usable since net2003, don't know. > >Tony > >> >> >>> >>>Tony >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> But from my mutilated perspective, learning process takes place from simple to >>>>>difficult. Kids don't learn advanced mathematics before they learn to add and >>>>>substract. Learning function calls and recursion and strings with an intuitive >>>>>and friendly language like VB can't hurt IMO. Note that old BASIC was not >>>>>friendly and intuitive, and I wouldn't recommend it, but VB is really easy. >>>>> But I admit I'm not a teacher, and your experience is much more relevant than >>>>>mine. >>>>> The fact is that I can now program C, C++, Java, VB, BASIC, assembly, LISP, >>>>>PROLOG, SQL, Delphi... and I don't feel the order in which I learnt them put >>>>>extra difficulties in the learning process. >>>>> >>>>> José C.
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