Author: Tony Werten
Date: 05:30:01 08/12/04
Go up one level in this thread
On August 12, 2004 at 07:56:37, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >On August 12, 2004 at 03:28:58, Tony Werten wrote: > >>On August 11, 2004 at 17:25:14, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >> >>>On August 11, 2004 at 14:36:50, José Carlos wrote: >>> >>>>On August 11, 2004 at 11:54:44, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 11, 2004 at 09:43:18, Daniel Clausen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On August 11, 2004 at 09:42:04, gerold daniels wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>what is the best to program a chess game in. c.c++,c#. which is the easy one to >>>>>>>learn and the best to program in. >>>>>> >>>>>>I predict you will get at least 4 different answers. ;) >>>>> >>>>>Here we go with one of them: >>>>> >>>>>For writing a chess engine you cannot expect to get a reasonably fast thing >>>>>without using C/C++. And when using C++ try to avoid some expensive features of >>>>>the language. Quoting Edsger Dijkstra: >>>>> >>>>>"Object-oriented programming is an exceptionally bad idea which could only have >>>>>originated in California." >>>>> >>>>>Of course I disagree with that, as there are many benefiots in OOP. But still, >>>>>there is something in what he says :) >>>>> >>>>>If you are looking for easier languages (especially for building graphical user >>>>>interfaces), Java and C# are reasonable options. Java has the advantage that it >>>>>can run on any platform and is used by many major-league companies. On the other >>>>>hand .NET framework will already be present in Longhorn Windows, which will ease >>>>>the distribution of your programs. But at the moment, I would recommend Java >>>>>over C#. >>>>> >>>>>Finally, unlike Jose, I would recommend you to stay away from Visual Basic, or >>>>>any other thing that has the word BASIC in it. Again quoting Edsger Dijkstra: >>>>> >>>>>"It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have >>>>>had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally >>>>>mutilated beyond hope of regeneration." >>>>> >>>>>and >>>>> >>>>>"Teaching BASIC should be a criminal offense." >>>>> >>>>>Visual Basic is a very advanced language in comparison to the primitive BASIC, >>>>>but still it does mentally mutilate you :) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Sargon >>>> >>>> That might be the reason why I'm mentally mutilated, as I first learnt BASIC >>>>for the Amstrad (some centuries ago). >>> >>>I first learned BASIC too (actually QBASIC). And when I moved to C, my first >>>programs were full of "goto". It took me some time to abandon such unhealthy >>>BASIC habits. >>> >>>Nowadays Visual Basic is chosen for simplicity. But if my 13 years old sister >>>could learn C with rather ease, then everyone can. The problem with C/C++ is >>>that they don't provide an easy way for creating GUI (unlike Java, C#, Visual >>>Basic, etc). That is the only advantage of Visual Basic over C for beginners. >> >>I have been playing with Visual C 2005 beta, and this argument isn't true >>anymore. They copied the whole forms idea from Delphi. >> >>I always picked Delphi because it's the only fast language that can also easily >>create a userinterface, but with the new Visual C this argument doesn't even >>hold anymore. > >What is new in Visual C 2005? My latest MSVC is net2003, where they have >introduced WindowsForms for C++, which is better structured than MFC, but >nothing of interest for C. I was talking only about making a GUI in Visual C, wich was an utter disaster in my last try (VC++ 5/6 ?) I think this was the main reason for succes for Delphi and Visual Basic. It might already have been usable since net2003, don't know. Tony > > >> >>Tony >> >>> >>> >>> >>>> But from my mutilated perspective, learning process takes place from simple to >>>>difficult. Kids don't learn advanced mathematics before they learn to add and >>>>substract. Learning function calls and recursion and strings with an intuitive >>>>and friendly language like VB can't hurt IMO. Note that old BASIC was not >>>>friendly and intuitive, and I wouldn't recommend it, but VB is really easy. >>>> But I admit I'm not a teacher, and your experience is much more relevant than >>>>mine. >>>> The fact is that I can now program C, C++, Java, VB, BASIC, assembly, LISP, >>>>PROLOG, SQL, Delphi... and I don't feel the order in which I learnt them put >>>>extra difficulties in the learning process. >>>> >>>> José C.
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