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Subject: Re: c,c++5,c#.

Author: Tony Werten

Date: 05:30:01 08/12/04

Go up one level in this thread


On August 12, 2004 at 07:56:37, Omid David Tabibi wrote:

>On August 12, 2004 at 03:28:58, Tony Werten wrote:
>
>>On August 11, 2004 at 17:25:14, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>
>>>On August 11, 2004 at 14:36:50, José Carlos wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 11, 2004 at 11:54:44, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On August 11, 2004 at 09:43:18, Daniel Clausen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On August 11, 2004 at 09:42:04, gerold daniels wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>what is the best to program a chess game in. c.c++,c#. which is the easy one to
>>>>>>>learn and the best to program in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I predict you will get at least 4 different answers. ;)
>>>>>
>>>>>Here we go with one of them:
>>>>>
>>>>>For writing a chess engine you cannot expect to get a reasonably fast thing
>>>>>without using C/C++. And when using C++ try to avoid some expensive features of
>>>>>the language. Quoting Edsger Dijkstra:
>>>>>
>>>>>"Object-oriented programming is an exceptionally bad idea which could only have
>>>>>originated in California."
>>>>>
>>>>>Of course I disagree with that, as there are many benefiots in OOP. But still,
>>>>>there is something in what he says :)
>>>>>
>>>>>If you are looking for easier languages (especially for building graphical user
>>>>>interfaces), Java and C# are reasonable options. Java has the advantage that it
>>>>>can run on any platform and is used by many major-league companies. On the other
>>>>>hand .NET framework will already be present in Longhorn Windows, which will ease
>>>>>the distribution of your programs. But at the moment, I would recommend Java
>>>>>over C#.
>>>>>
>>>>>Finally, unlike Jose, I would recommend you to stay away from Visual Basic, or
>>>>>any other thing that has the word BASIC in it. Again quoting Edsger Dijkstra:
>>>>>
>>>>>"It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have
>>>>>had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally
>>>>>mutilated beyond hope of regeneration."
>>>>>
>>>>>and
>>>>>
>>>>>"Teaching BASIC should be a criminal offense."
>>>>>
>>>>>Visual Basic is a very advanced language in comparison to the primitive BASIC,
>>>>>but still it does mentally mutilate you :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sargon
>>>>
>>>>  That might be the reason why I'm mentally mutilated, as I first learnt BASIC
>>>>for the Amstrad (some centuries ago).
>>>
>>>I first learned BASIC too (actually QBASIC). And when I moved to C, my first
>>>programs were full of "goto". It took me some time to abandon such unhealthy
>>>BASIC habits.
>>>
>>>Nowadays Visual Basic is chosen for simplicity. But if my 13 years old sister
>>>could learn C with rather ease, then everyone can. The problem with C/C++ is
>>>that they don't provide an easy way for creating GUI (unlike Java, C#, Visual
>>>Basic, etc). That is the only advantage of Visual Basic over C for beginners.
>>
>>I have been playing with Visual C 2005 beta, and this argument isn't true
>>anymore. They copied the whole forms idea from Delphi.
>>
>>I always picked Delphi because it's the only fast language that can also easily
>>create a userinterface, but with the new Visual C this argument doesn't even
>>hold anymore.
>
>What is new in Visual C 2005? My latest MSVC is net2003, where they have
>introduced WindowsForms for C++, which is better structured than MFC, but
>nothing of interest for C.

I was talking only about making a GUI in Visual C, wich was an utter disaster in
my last try (VC++ 5/6 ?) I think this was the main reason for succes for Delphi
and Visual Basic.

It might already have been usable since net2003, don't know.

Tony

>
>
>>
>>Tony
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>  But from my mutilated perspective, learning process takes place from simple to
>>>>difficult. Kids don't learn advanced mathematics before they learn to add and
>>>>substract. Learning function calls and recursion and strings with an intuitive
>>>>and friendly language like VB can't hurt IMO. Note that old BASIC was not
>>>>friendly and intuitive, and I wouldn't recommend it, but VB is really easy.
>>>>  But I admit I'm not a teacher, and your experience is much more relevant than
>>>>mine.
>>>>  The fact is that I can now program C, C++, Java, VB, BASIC, assembly, LISP,
>>>>PROLOG, SQL, Delphi... and I don't feel the order in which I learnt them put
>>>>extra difficulties in the learning process.
>>>>
>>>>  José C.



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