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Subject: Re: SEE & accuracy

Author: Stuart Cracraft

Date: 16:24:01 08/21/04

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On August 21, 2004 at 17:52:58, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On August 21, 2004 at 17:37:15, Stuart Cracraft wrote:
>
>>On August 21, 2004 at 17:23:30, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On August 21, 2004 at 13:20:11, Stuart Cracraft wrote:
>>>
>>>>All,
>>>>
>>>>SEE increases my nominal iteration depth by 0.42 pawns
>>>>given the same amount of time as a non-SEE search, all else
>>>>
>>>>SEE decreases my max quiescence depth reached (with a check handoff
>>>>to main search) by a little under 8 ply for the same problem set.
>>>>
>>>>These are the 300 positions from Win-at-Chess run at 1 second per
>>>>problem on an old, slow, notebook. I do not have comparative data
>>>>due to the subjectivity involved of chess games and the "feel of SEE".
>>>>
>>>>Legend:
>>>>Ave Iterative Depth/Average Max Search depth
>>>>% solved
>>>>Total solved / Total in test
>>>>Total time taken (300 seconds allowed)
>>>>Total Nodes searched
>>>>Average positions searched per problem /
>>>>Average time (rounded) per problem /
>>>>Average nodes per second per problem
>>>>0/0/Check Extensions from Quiescence back to Main Search/0/0
>>>>
>>>>Without SEE
>>>>
>>>>**** 6.68/27.18 68% 204/300 269.05 54264704 180882/1/201692 0/0/3361112/0/0/0
>>>>
>>>>With SEE
>>>>
>>>>**** 7.10/19.01 64% 193/300 267.44 46135172 153784/1/172505 0/0/1154026/0/0/0
>>>>
>>>>Total problem solution rate drops 5.4% and nodes searched drops 14.98%
>>>>
>>>>(The SEE being used above was tried as (1) see < 0 then don't search
>>>>a capture move in quiescence and (2) see < delta where delta is calculated
>>>>with its margin off alpha as the maximum positional score so far in the
>>>>search for the side on move. The above results are the combination of both and
>>>>if only using the #2, assuming for example my SEE is not a great SEE,
>>>>the result is only slightly changed.)
>>>>
>>>>My question is, why should SEE reduce the tactical result so drastically
>>>>and is it safe to do so given the depth and nodes results are favorable?
>>>>
>>>>Thanks ahead,
>>>>
>>>>Stuart
>>>
>>>
>>>SEE should _help_ in tactics, not hurt.  If it is hurting, there is something
>>>wrong somewhere...
>>
>>That's puzzling. I've tested it pretty thoroughly, manually, in a variety
>>of positions and think it is working right. It knows nothing of any secondary
>>effects, just the exchanging pieces. No x-rays, etc.
>>
>>Now I'm really nervous.
>
>
>No x-rays is a serious shortcoming.  IE two rooks attacking the same square in
>battery.  If you don't include the second rook I could see how SEE could cause
>problems.  I handle X-rays pretty easily and always did even back in CB days...

Yes -- X-rays have to be added. Finding them isn't a problem. It's what to
do with them after. I'll check around.




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