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Subject: Re: Real data on cache working set

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 07:04:28 08/24/04

Go up one level in this thread


On August 24, 2004 at 01:11:49, Tom Kerrigan wrote:

>On August 23, 2004 at 23:26:28, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>Of course it is _always_ easy to either criticize or guess.  I tried to offer
>>_real_ data.  This little program will allow a lot of tuning, although I wanted
>>
>>the data.  I came up with some numbers that at _least_ are based on some sort of
>>reasonable approach to measuring cache usage.  And it is a third data point that
>>directly supports my 512K/1024K/2048K data and Eugene's 1.5m/3.0m data.  We both
>>show speed improvements as cache gets bigger, beyond 512kb.  So did the
>>cachegrind program above.  three out of four showing improvement is fairly
>>convincing.  one out of four seems to be an anomoly of some sort, as yet
>>unexplained.
>
>Yes, yes, real data this, real data that. Get off your damn "real data" high
>horse.
>
>Are you saying that Anandtech's measurements are not real data?

I am saying I have no idea what they are reporting.  I haven't read it and don't
really care...


> You point out
>that they messed up compiling TSCP for one of their articles. You ask for their
>exact test setup. But this is just cheap psychological BS to try to discredit
>the data in peoples' minds without actually saying anything about the data. Hey,
>if you want to play scientist (you are supposedly a computer "science"
>professor, right?), how about you try to reproduce their experiment? Get a
>Sempron and an Athlon 64 and take the measurements. That's what a scientist
>would do, scientific method and peer review and all that. Until you do that, you
>can't legimiately dispute their data.
>

I don't believe I have disputed _any_ data.  I disputed _your_ "proof" because
it was not a proof of any kind...

Back to the real world...




>Besides, I took my own measurements, remember? Between a 2GHz 512k L2 Athlon 64
>and a 2GHz Opteron. They performed EXACTLY the same. How is that not real data?
>So you're basically calling me a liar, with absolutely no justification. Well,
>until you run the same experiment and get different numbers, I say you can shut
>the hell up.


Again, for the last time, what I said was this:

"running crafty on an Xkb L2 cache processor, then running in on a 2Xkb L2 cache
processor, getting the same search speed each time, does _not_ prove that the
working set is < than Xkb."

I have three sets of data.

1.  intel xeon pentium II, 512KB, 1024KB, and 2048KB of L2 cache.  Going from
512K to 1024K was 10% faster.  Going from 1024K to 2048K was 7% faster.

2.  Intel IA64.  Going from 1.5MB to 3.0MB was 10% faster although the caches
were not identical since Intel changed the associativity.

3.  The data I produced here yesterday which also showed that cache misses
dropped way down for caches > 512K total.

Now I think I will "shut the hell up" since the discussions with you never go
anywhere useful.  You might try doing the same thing yourself...








>
>Speaking of the scientific method, it's interesting that nobody could reproduce
>your Xeon experiment if they WANTED to, because you have no freakin' clue what
>version of Crafty you used. It's not that hard--just try to remember vaguely
>when you did the experiment and then figure out which version of Crafty you were
>on at the time. I really do not understand the problem. The only reason why you
>haven't done this already that I can think of is that your experiment was bogus
>and you don't want people figuring that out.


Based on yesterday's results they could use current source, wouldn't you think?

Why would I run a bogus experiment to help me decide on whether to spend $1000,
$2500 or $5000 per processor?  I ran the test, and asked the question is 10%
worth another $6000 dollars in a box that was going to cost about $10,000 with
512K L2 processors?  Was another 7% worth _another_ $10,000??  The answer to
both was "no".  Had it been 50% things might have been different.

I didn't run that test for _you_.  I ran it for _me_.  I wanted a real answer to
make a financial decision.  You can take your "bogus experiment" stuff and drop
dead for all I care.

It took a good bit of time to get a company to help me run the test.  I didn't
do it "lightly".  Unlike most of your tests...




>
>-Tom



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