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Subject: Re: Knee jerk reaction!

Author: David Dahlem

Date: 14:39:28 09/14/04

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On September 14, 2004 at 17:10:39, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On September 14, 2004 at 11:32:48, David Dahlem wrote:
>
>>On September 14, 2004 at 10:30:07, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On September 14, 2004 at 01:46:33, martin fierz wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 13, 2004 at 10:20:05, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 13, 2004 at 06:41:10, Tord Romstad wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On September 12, 2004 at 03:52:56, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On September 12, 2004 at 00:42:50, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Sure, forcing Kasparov to play English openings, forcing Karpov to play the
>>>>>>>>Latvian, etc.  Wouldn't be very revealing however...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Indeed it would, every player should know his strong and weak points, perhaps he
>>>>>>>plays the english better than he is aware of :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>At least he (Kasparov) apparently plays the English better than you and Bob
>>>>>>are aware of. ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The English opening was one of his main weapons with white around
>>>>>>1985-1990.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tord
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The point is he doesn't choose to play it a lot today.  Nor other openings.
>>>>>Remember that he claimed that was the thing that cost him the last game against
>>>>>DB, playing an opening he didn't play much.
>>>>
>>>>i don't understand your view on the whole subject; but i specially disagree with
>>>>your statements about chess (players). modern grandmasters have an incredibly
>>>>broad opening repertoire. this is a rather new development, probably assisted by
>>>>chessbase. if you believe that korchnoi never plays anything but 1.d4 or that
>>>>kasparov never plays the english in serious games, you are rather mistaken.
>>>
>>>I didn't say "never".  I said "in important games".  That is pretty true.  I
>>>have asked this very question to three different GM players, all said that they
>>>have specific favorite openings for important games/matches.  And all said they
>>>do _not_ play every opening system, which means your "incredibly broad
>>>repertoire" might be true in general as they do study openings a lot, but it
>>>doesn't appear to be true when it is time for optimal results as in important
>>>matches or tournaments...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>kasparov was looking for excuses everywhere to explain his failure in the DB
>>>>match, it sounds more like a plausible attempt of his to cover up the fact that
>>>>he just played a horrible match.
>>>>
>>>>here's why i don't understand your attitude in this thread: as a chess player, i
>>>>have learned a lot by playing different openings. i have, for example, lost my
>>>>fear of the IQP over the last years as a result of playing the tarrasch defence.
>>>>now the tarrasch is supposed to be just very slightly dubious, but it doesn't
>>>>matter: i learned something there. by restricting crafty to what you know it can
>>>>do you might be missing things it can't do that you might otherwise find.
>>>
>>>All that is well and good.  But the point is still this:  Time is limited.  And
>>>one way to fix a problem is to bypass it.  IE in building a road, I can build a
>>>bridge over a lake in the way, or I can build _around_ the lake.  The latter is
>>>way faster and cheaper, and the net result is the same - you still get to where
>>>you want to go.
>>>
>>>I've said many times in the past that I _have_ done what you suggest.  You might
>>>remember my comments about Cray Blitz _never_ playing a g3/g6 type opening as it
>>>didn't understand the importance of the bishop in those positions.  It was
>>>easier at the time to just not play them.  I later fixed that in Crafty and see
>>>no problems with that kind of play now.  But I see no overwhelming need to fix
>>>every kind of opening setup immediately, when it can be deferred until some
>>>later time with a simple book fix.
>>>
>>>That is my point.  Not that a program _shouldn't_ play all openings well, but
>>>that there is no rush to make that happen in every case.
>>
>>So why should engine testers avoid the openings that an engine doesn't play
>>well? To do that is not an accurate method of testing engine strength. To get an
>>accurate picture of engine strength, testing must be done on a wide variety of
>>opening lines, not just a few lines the engine author likes.
>
>Again, why don't we settle this under "equal" conditions on a Karate mat?  We
>get the same equipment, clothing, etc.
>
>Or does "experience" factor into that.  But not into chess???

This is not even close to being responsive to my post. Instead you change the
subject to ??? Karate ??? :-)

Regards
Dave

>
>
>>
>>Regards
>>Dave
>>
>>
>>Why is that so hard to
>>>understand?  _everybody_ has done it and still does.  That is what the
>>>professional book authors contribute to a chess development project...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>besides: how many players are interested in a strong chess engine? on my level
>>>>(FM) i know exactly ZERO people who play against engines. on the other hand, 99%
>>>>of the poeple i know on my level use engines to analyze games. conclusion: if
>>>>you want to make an engine that is useful for the average user of strong chess
>>>>engines, it has to be able to deal with all positions that the user throws at
>>>>it.
>>>
>>>supply and demand.  How many FM/IM players are there vs how many club players?
>>>It is the market that drives this.  Chessmaster is the best example.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>cheers
>>>>  martin



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