Author: Dann Corbit
Date: 09:52:43 09/16/04
Go up one level in this thread
On September 16, 2004 at 07:37:01, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>Your post is a good example of what happens when one jumps to a conclusion
>without taking the minimum amount of effort needed to understand what is really
>going on.
I disagree completely, also with everyone else.
It is absolutely clear that both moves win. Neither move can be considered
superior, since winning is the object of the game. It does not matter that one
mate is shorter than the other. In the same way that a 3 move checkmate and a
12 move checkmate both win, either dominating gain of material wins. If the
delaying move caused a loophole that allowed the opponent to escape it would be
different.
One move cannot be said to be better than the other, from a game theoretical
standpoint.
Here is analysis by Shredder for the aftermath of both positions:
Analysis from E:\111alt.epd
9/15/2004 5:39:08 PM Level: 18000 Seconds
Analyzing engine: Shredder 7.04 UCI
6k1/p5p1/5p2/2P2Q2/3pN2p/3PbK1P/7P/3q4 w - -
1) Qf1+ Qd1+; id "WAC.1
Avoid move:
Best move (Shredder 7.04 UCI): Kf3-g2
Not found in: 5:00:00
illegal command
2/2 00:00 3 187 -16.63 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+
3/3 00:00 4 250 -16.63 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+
4/4 00:00 5 312 -16.63 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+
5/5 00:00 6 375 -16.63 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+
6/6 00:00 7 437 -16.63 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+
7/7 00:00 8 500 -16.63 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+
8/8 00:00 9 562 -16.63 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+
9/9 00:00 10 625 -16.63 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+
10/10 00:00 11 687 -16.63 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+
11/11 00:00 12 750 -16.63 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+
12/12 00:00 13 419 -16.63 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+
13/13 00:00 14 451 -16.63 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+
14/14 00:00 15 483 -16.63 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+
15/15 00:00 16 516 -16.63 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+
16/16 00:00 17 548 -16.63 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+
17/17 00:00 18 580 -16.63 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+
18/18 00:00 19 612 -16.63 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+
19/19- 00:00 38 1.225 -18.13 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+ Kg2f3 Qg1f1+ Kf3g4
19/49 21:31 940.968.572 728.594 -18.13 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+ Kg2f3 Qg1f1+ Kf3g4
Qf1xd3
20/53+ 1:23:54 3.763.157,307 747.547 -17.88 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+ Kg2f3 Qg1f1+ Kf3g4
Qf1xd3 Kg4xh4 Qd3xe4+ Qf5xe4 a7a5 Kh4g3 Be3g5 Qe4xd4 f6f5 Qd4xg7+ Kg8xg7
20/53+ 2:36:45 7.088.772,932 753.694 -17.38 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+ Kg2f3 Qg1f1+ Kf3g4
Qf1xd3 Kg4xh4 Qd3xe4+ Qf5xe4 a7a5 Kh4g3 Be3g5 Qe4xd4 f6f5 Qd4xg7+ Kg8xg7
20/54 4:20:47 11.413.144,284 729.392 -17.37 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+ Kg2f3 Qg1f1+ Kf3g4
Qf1e2+ Qf5f3 f6f5+ Kg4xf5 Qe2xf3+ Kf5e5 Qf3xh3 Ke5d5 Qh3xh2 Ne4f2
21/45- 4:20:55 11.418.759,659 729.392 -17.62 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+ Kg2f3 Qg1f1+ Kf3g4
Qf1e2+ Qf5f3 f6f5+ Kg4xf5 Qe2xf3+ Kf5e5 Qf3xh3 Ke5d5 Qh3xh2 Ne4f2
21/45- 4:20:57 11.420.222,902 729.389 -18.12 Kf3g2 Qd1g1+ Kg2f3 Qg1f1+ Kf3g4
Qf1e2+ Qf5f3 f6f5+ Kg4xf5 Qe2xf3+ Kf5e5 Qf3xh3 Ke5d5 Qh3xh2 Ne4f2
9/15/2004 10:39:13 PM, Time for this analysis: 05:00:00, Rated time: 5:00:00
[D]6k1/p5p1/5p2/2P2Q2/3pN2p/3PbK1P/7P/5q2 w - -
2) Qf1+ Qd1+; id "WAC.1
Avoid move:
Best move (Shredder 7.04 UCI): Kf3-g4
Not found in: 5:00:00
illegal command
2/2 00:01 4 2 -18.13 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3 Be3f4+
Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Kf4g3 Qf1xd3+ Kg3f2 Qd3e3+ Kf2f1 Qe3xe4
3/3 00:01 6 4 -18.13 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3 Be3f4+
Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Kf4g3 Qf1xd3+ Kg3f2 Qd3e3+ Kf2f1 Qe3xe4
4/4 00:01 8 5 -18.13 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3 Be3f4+
Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Kf4g3 Qf1xd3+ Kg3f2 Qd3e3+ Kf2f1 Qe3xe4
5/5 00:01 10 7 -18.13 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3 Be3f4+
Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Kf4g3 Qf1xd3+ Kg3f2 Qd3e3+ Kf2f1 Qe3xe4
6/6 00:01 12 8 -18.13 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3 Be3f4+
Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Kf4g3 Qf1xd3+ Kg3f2 Qd3e3+ Kf2f1 Qe3xe4
7/7 00:01 14 9 -18.13 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3 Be3f4+
Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Kf4g3 Qf1xd3+ Kg3f2 Qd3e3+ Kf2f1 Qe3xe4
8/8 00:01 16 11 -18.13 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3 Be3f4+
Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Kf4g3 Qf1xd3+ Kg3f2 Qd3e3+ Kf2f1 Qe3xe4
9/9 00:01 18 12 -18.13 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3 Be3f4+
Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Kf4g3 Qf1xd3+ Kg3f2 Qd3e3+ Kf2f1 Qe3xe4
10/10 00:01 20 14 -18.13 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3 Be3f4+
Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Kf4g3 Qf1xd3+ Kg3f2 Qd3e3+ Kf2f1 Qe3xe4
11/11 00:01 22 15 -18.13 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3 Be3f4+
Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Kf4g3 Qf1xd3+ Kg3f2 Qd3e3+ Kf2f1 Qe3xe4
12/12 00:01 24 17 -18.13 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3 Be3f4+
Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Kf4g3 Qf1xd3+ Kg3f2 Qd3e3+ Kf2f1 Qe3xe4
13/13 00:01 26 18 -18.13 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3 Be3f4+
Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Kf4g3 Qf1xd3+ Kg3f2 Qd3e3+ Kf2f1 Qe3xe4
14/14 00:01 28 19 -18.13 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3 Be3f4+
Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Kf4g3 Qf1xd3+ Kg3f2 Qd3e3+ Kf2f1 Qe3xe4
15/15 00:01 30 21 -18.13 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3 Be3f4+
Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Kf4g3 Qf1xd3+ Kg3f2 Qd3e3+ Kf2f1 Qe3xe4
16/16 00:01 32 22 -18.13 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3 Be3f4+
Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Kf4g3 Qf1xd3+ Kg3f2 Qd3e3+ Kf2f1 Qe3xe4
17/17 00:01 34 24 -18.13 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3 Be3f4+
Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Kf4g3 Qf1xd3+ Kg3f2 Qd3e3+ Kf2f1 Qe3xe4
18/18 00:01 36 25 -18.13 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3 Be3f4+
Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Kf4g3 Qf1xd3+ Kg3f2 Qd3e3+ Kf2f1 Qe3xe4
19/41 00:05 2.295.649 453.416 -18.25 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3
Be3f4+ Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4
20/51+ 08:56 418.672.582 781.583 -18.00 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Qf5f3 f6f5+ Kg4xf5
Qe2xf3+ Kf5e5 Be3f4+ Ke5xd4 Qf3xe4+ d3xe4 Bf4xh2 c5c6 Bh2g1+ Kd4d5 g7g6 Kd5c4
Kg8f7 c6c7 g6g5 c7c8Q
20/51 09:18 436.679.416 782.864 -18.00 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Qf5f3 f6f5+ Kg4xf5
Qe2xf3+ Kf5e5 Qf3xh3 Ne4d6 Qh3xh2+ Ke5e6 Qh2a2+ Nd6c4 Qa2a6+ Ke6f5 Qa6f6+ Kf5e4
Qf6c6+ Ke4e5 Qc6xc5+ Ke5e6 g7g5 Ke6d7 Qc5xc4 Kd7e8
21/45- 09:32 447.238.539 781.628 -18.25 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Qf5f3 f6f5+ Kg4xf5
Qe2xf3+ Kf5e5 Qf3xh3 Ne4d6 Qh3xh2+ Ke5e6 Qh2a2+ Nd6c4 Qa2a6+ Ke6f5 Qa6f6+ Kf5e4
Qf6c6+ Ke4e5 Qc6xc5+ Ke5e6 g7g5 Ke6d7 Qc5xc4 Kd7e8 Qc4xd3
21/45- 09:35 449.560.969 781.483 -18.75 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Qf5f3 f6f5+ Kg4xf5
Qe2xf3+ Kf5e5 Qf3xh3 Ne4d6 Qh3xh2+ Ke5e6 Qh2a2+ Nd6c4 Qa2a6+ Ke6f5 Qa6f6+ Kf5e4
Qf6c6+ Ke4e5 Qc6xc5+ Ke5e6 g7g5 Ke6d7 Qc5xc4 Kd7e8 Qc4xd3
21/53 39:12 1.795.204.843 763.312 -22.59 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3
Be3f4+ Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Kf4g4 f6f5+ Kg4g5 f5xe4 d3xe4 a7a5 h3h4 d4d3
Kg5g4 d3d2 h4h5
22/53+ 1:47:57 4.893.801,601 755.582 -22.34 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3
Be3f4+ Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Ne4f2 Qf1xf2+ Kf4e4 Qf2e3+ Ke4d5 Qe3xd3 c5c6
Qd3c3 c6c7 d4d3
22/55+ 3:26:46 9.504.025,275 766.071 -21.84 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3
Be3f4+ Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Ne4f2 Qf1xf2+ Kf4e4 Qf2e3+ Ke4d5 Qe3xd3 c5c6
Qd3c3 c6c7 d4d3
22/55 3:27:46 9.552.227,387 766.262 -21.84 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3
Be3f4+ Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Ne4f2 Qf1xf2+ Kf4e4 Qf2e3+ Ke4d5 Qe3xd3 c5c6
Qd3c3 c6c7 d4d3 h3h4 d3d2
23/47- 3:30:36 9.675.034,794 765.675 -22.09 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3
Be3f4+ Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Ne4f2 Qf1xf2+ Kf4e4 Qf2e3+ Ke4d5 Qe3xd3 c5c6
Qd3c3 c6c7 d4d3 h3h4 d3d2
23/51- 3:30:54 9.688.915,295 765.705 -22.59 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3
Be3f4+ Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Ne4f2 Qf1xf2+ Kf4e4 Qf2e3+ Ke4d5 Qe3xd3 c5c6
Qd3c3 c6c7 d4d3 h3h4 d3d2
23/57 4:41:47 12.755.682,432 754.467 -24.37 Kf3g4 Qf1e2+ Kg4xh4 g7g5+ Kh4g3
Be3f4+ Qf5xf4 g5xf4+ Kg3xf4 Qe2f1+ Kf4g4 f6f5+ Kg4g5 f5xe4 d3xe4 d4d3 c5c6 d3d2
c6c7
9/16/2004 3:39:15 AM, Time for this analysis: 05:00:00, Rated time: 10:00:00
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Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
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