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Subject: Re: Knight vs Bishop with pawns ending

Author: Matthew Herman

Date: 15:47:29 01/08/99

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On January 08, 1999 at 10:24:45, Michael J Fitch wrote:

>On January 08, 1999 at 08:06:03, Matthew Herman wrote:
>
>>On January 08, 1999 at 04:22:09, Howard Exner wrote:
>>
>>>b5k1/7p/4p1pP/4P1P1/8/8/8/N5K1 w
>>>
>>>Here is a position based on a game between Cm6000 and Fritz 5.32.
>>>( the recent game with the move d3 thread).
>>>I created this position to see if Chess programs have
>>>an accurate assessment of the relative values that the Bishop and
>>>Knight have. Material is equal yet all endgame authors I've read usually
>>>comment on positions like this in the following manner - "White has
>>>a huge advantage as all the pawns are on the same side of the board.
>>>Furthermore whites pawns cannot be attacked and once the powerfull
>>>white Knight reaches f6 the game will be over."
>>>
>>>
>>>How will programs eventually come to deal with assessing this position
>>>correctly? Will this be a kind of position that programs will never
>>>quite understand? Do any programs penalize the bishop here or
>>>conversely, give the Knight extra value in this position?
>>
>>By the way .. in this position it isn't so easy to get the knight to f6 .. (the
>>Bishop goes to f5 and the k to e7 and it is really hard to penetrate from there.
>>One problem with programs dealing with this, is that the bishop has a *wide*
>>open diagonal .. so therefore it might think it to be active instead of bad.
>
>Mr Herman lets assume that the pawn structure is the same black Ke7 and
>Bf5.Whites Kc5 and Ne3  .White to move win by Nxf5 if exf5 kxd5 and the pass
>pawn will queen and if gxf5 g6 [a(if hxg6 h7) [b(if kf8 gxh7 queen)
>I played over this game several times and the Bishop can't stop the Night from
>getting to f6.On move 46 instead of Bc4 black had to play Bxe2 put his king on
>d7 and move his rook back and forth on the seventh and eighth ranks and the game
>is a draw.I hope one of these years(soon) that chess programs will give the
>correct positional value,evaluation and assessment of these kinds of positions

Which passer will queen? If the king is on e7 no e pawn will queen and black
wins the ending because of the f-pawn.. yes the knight will probably get there,
but it isn't as easy as first looks.. I mean after Nxf5 exf5 the f-pawn is
protected and passeed, and the ending is an easy win.. (for black) but it sohuld
be a win for white.. as the Kn cannot be permanently kept out of f6 I don't
think



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