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Subject: Re: program strength

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 23:42:16 09/24/04

Go up one level in this thread


On September 25, 2004 at 02:36:28, Uri Blass wrote:

>On September 25, 2004 at 02:09:20, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>
>>On September 24, 2004 at 07:43:57, Joachim Rang wrote:
>>
>>>On September 24, 2004 at 05:07:52, stuart taylor wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 24, 2004 at 04:44:23, jim r uselton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hello, I'm a newbie at computer chess and I have a question. How strong are the
>>>>>programs you buy right off the shelf. The Fritz, the Shredder, etc., etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>Will they play at GM strength or do you need a strong player guiding and
>>>>>controlling move selection?
>>>>
>>>>The top programs on normal PC's of today, will often beat a GM, perhaps even
>>>>more often than not. If even a GM wants to have a fighting chance, he has to be
>>>>very familiar with computer style chess.
>>>>
>>>>This does not mean that a GM doesn't understand better than a computer. Any GM
>>>>SHOULD beat a computer in almost any game, but that is now very hard to
>>>>actualize any more, so you might as well say that computers are equal to a
>>>>strong GM, but in a certain way.
>>>>
>>>>I think that if any GM would analyze absolutely determined to win, like in
>>>>correspondents chess, then he could win (or draw) almost any game off any
>>>>computer, even if the computer was also left analyzing for that same amount of
>>>>time. But the GM would have to work very very hard.
>>>>
>>>>S.Taylor
>>>
>>>exactly that kind of experiment is happening right now:
>>
>>GM = Fide-GM
>>Arno Nickel is not a Fide-GM.
>>So that experiment does not happen right now.
>>
>>Michael
>>
>>>
>>>http://www.chessfriend.com
>>>
>>>Select "GM Nickel - Engines" in the Navigation.
>>>
>>>so far it seems an engine with a dedicated and decent (not top) computer
>>>analyzing at CC-time-controls (several days per move) is playing on GM-Level in
>>>Correspondence Chess too.
>>>
>>>Of course Arno Nickel did some minor mistakes but the match indicates that even
>>>on CC it is nowadays very hard for a human to beat a computer.
>>
>>With the help of a computer it´s very easy.
>>
>>Michael
>
>If it is very easy then you could expect nickel to get 6-0 result or at least
>5-1.
>He is not a fide GM but he is also not a weak chess player.
>
>There is a difference between claiming that very strong players can do it with
>the help of computer(and even this was not proved) and claiming that it is very
>easy.
>
>Note also that playing against a computer does not mean that you know the name
>of your opponent and I doubt if you can beat a strong private program like
>falcon at correspondence time control easily even if falcon is slightly weaker
>than shredder.
>
>Uri

I mentioned falcon because you did not claim that beating some public available
programs in correspondence games is easy but that beating a computer is easy
and if you know only that your opponent is a computer then you cannot know that
it is not falcon and I doubt if knowing the name of the opponent in the
beginning of the game will help you when the opponent is a private program.

Uri



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