Author: Drexel,Michael
Date: 06:06:36 10/14/04
Go up one level in this thread
On October 14, 2004 at 08:22:48, Graham Laight wrote: >On October 14, 2004 at 07:51:39, Drexel,Michael wrote: > >>On October 13, 2004 at 13:20:10, Graham Laight wrote: >> >>>On October 13, 2004 at 11:44:32, Peter Skinner wrote: >>> >>>>On October 13, 2004 at 10:58:41, Graham Laight wrote: >>>> >>>>>So - the human players at Bilbao (Ruslan Ponomariov, Véselin Topálov and Sergey >>>>>Karjakin) were simply not sufficiently well motivated, then? >>>>> >>>>>-g >>>> >>>>Frankly looking at the way the humans played, there was certainly room for vast >>>>improvement. They played the computers as if they were playing humans. That is >>>>the wrong thing to do. >>>> >>>>If you look at most games, they were of high "tactic" play. This is _exactly_ >>>>the strength of the computers. In the one game where the human played >>>>positionally, he made the computer look like a complete patzer. It was >>>>unfortunate that it was Junior, but it could have _easily_ been any other >>>>program there. >>>> >>>>Put Anand in there instead of Topalov, and the results would have been much >>>>different. The humans that played are not experienced computer players. I don't >>>>even think one of them has attended an AEGEON event (I could be wrong about >>>>this). >>>> >>>>In the Karjakin - Junior game, Karjakin played _excellent_ anti-computer chess. >>> >>>Looking at the game at http://www.utzingerk.com/bilbao/bilbao.htm , with just my >>>lowly 1600 skill level, I see some problems with Karjakin's positioning. By move >>>20, his king is fully exposed (with the queens still on the board!), and DJ has >>>a passed pawn. >>> >>>By move 25, there are tactical issues aplenty! >>> >>>I feel that Karjakin was lucky to escape with the win from this game. >> >>You have apparently no clue what really happened in this game, just like DJ. >>The passed pawn was worth exactly NOTHING. > >It looks like a good passed pawn to me. The only caveat would be that Karjakin >also obtained a passed pawn 2 moves later. > >Could you, as white in this game at move 20, beat a strong opponent? I think I would score 100% in correspondence chess from this position against any strong opponent with white. OTB almost everything can happen if you have a bad day. A firmly blockaded passed pawn is potentially a weakness. The pawn on e4 blocks the e-file and the square e4 for the knight. Therefore black is deprived of all counterplay. Michael > >I have just tried against Bringer - and I am unable to. > >To help you, here's the pgn: > >[Event "Man vs Machine 120'/40+60'"] >[Site "Bilbao ESP"] >[Date "2004.10.07"] >[Round "2"] >[White "Karjakin, Sergey"] >[Black "Deep Junior"] >[Result "1-0"] >[ECO "B90"] >[PlyCount "83"] >[EventDate "2004.??.??"] > >1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. f3 e5 7. Nb3 Be6 8. Be3 >Be7 9. Qd2 h5 10. Nd5 Bxd5 11. exd5 Nbd7 12. Be2 Rc8 13. c4 h4 14. O-O h3 15. >g3 O-O 16. Na5 Qc7 17. b4 Rfe8 18. Rfd1 Nb8 19. Rac1 e4 20. f4 Qd7 21. c5 dxc5 >22. bxc5 Bf8 23. d6 Nc6 24. Nc4 Rb8 25. Rb1 Qe6 26. Rb3 g6 27. Nb6 Bg7 28. Nd5 >Qd7 29. Nxf6+ Bxf6 30. Bc4 a5 31. a3 Ra8 32. Rb5 a4 33. Qe2 Bg7 34. Bd5 Ra7 35. >Kf2 Bf6 36. Rb6 Kf8 37. Rdb1 Bg7 38. g4 Bh8 39. Kg3 f5 40. g5 Qh7 41. Bxc6 bxc6 >42. Rxc6 1-0 > >-g > >>The opening choice was simply bad. >> >>Michael >> >>>I have to admit that, as the game progresses, DJ invents a new dance called "the >>>dark-square bishop shuffle" which, whether good chess or not, is not pleasing to >>>the eye. Moving a piece aimlessly backwards and forwards is usually an indicator >>>that a computer is in a position it does not understand well. >>> >>>-g >>> >>>>On ICC there are a few GM's that in longer games, just make the machines look >>>>stupid. It is almost insane how easily they win. There is also an IM on ICC >>>>named IgorIvanov. He plays my computer all the time (Shredder 8), and even in a >>>>blitz game (5 3), he can win _easily_. >>>> >>>>Peter
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.