Author: Graham Laight
Date: 05:22:48 10/14/04
Go up one level in this thread
On October 14, 2004 at 07:51:39, Drexel,Michael wrote: >On October 13, 2004 at 13:20:10, Graham Laight wrote: > >>On October 13, 2004 at 11:44:32, Peter Skinner wrote: >> >>>On October 13, 2004 at 10:58:41, Graham Laight wrote: >>> >>>>So - the human players at Bilbao (Ruslan Ponomariov, Véselin Topálov and Sergey >>>>Karjakin) were simply not sufficiently well motivated, then? >>>> >>>>-g >>> >>>Frankly looking at the way the humans played, there was certainly room for vast >>>improvement. They played the computers as if they were playing humans. That is >>>the wrong thing to do. >>> >>>If you look at most games, they were of high "tactic" play. This is _exactly_ >>>the strength of the computers. In the one game where the human played >>>positionally, he made the computer look like a complete patzer. It was >>>unfortunate that it was Junior, but it could have _easily_ been any other >>>program there. >>> >>>Put Anand in there instead of Topalov, and the results would have been much >>>different. The humans that played are not experienced computer players. I don't >>>even think one of them has attended an AEGEON event (I could be wrong about >>>this). >>> >>>In the Karjakin - Junior game, Karjakin played _excellent_ anti-computer chess. >> >>Looking at the game at http://www.utzingerk.com/bilbao/bilbao.htm , with just my >>lowly 1600 skill level, I see some problems with Karjakin's positioning. By move >>20, his king is fully exposed (with the queens still on the board!), and DJ has >>a passed pawn. >> >>By move 25, there are tactical issues aplenty! >> >>I feel that Karjakin was lucky to escape with the win from this game. > >You have apparently no clue what really happened in this game, just like DJ. >The passed pawn was worth exactly NOTHING. It looks like a good passed pawn to me. The only caveat would be that Karjakin also obtained a passed pawn 2 moves later. Could you, as white in this game at move 20, beat a strong opponent? I have just tried against Bringer - and I am unable to. To help you, here's the pgn: [Event "Man vs Machine 120'/40+60'"] [Site "Bilbao ESP"] [Date "2004.10.07"] [Round "2"] [White "Karjakin, Sergey"] [Black "Deep Junior"] [Result "1-0"] [ECO "B90"] [PlyCount "83"] [EventDate "2004.??.??"] 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. f3 e5 7. Nb3 Be6 8. Be3 Be7 9. Qd2 h5 10. Nd5 Bxd5 11. exd5 Nbd7 12. Be2 Rc8 13. c4 h4 14. O-O h3 15. g3 O-O 16. Na5 Qc7 17. b4 Rfe8 18. Rfd1 Nb8 19. Rac1 e4 20. f4 Qd7 21. c5 dxc5 22. bxc5 Bf8 23. d6 Nc6 24. Nc4 Rb8 25. Rb1 Qe6 26. Rb3 g6 27. Nb6 Bg7 28. Nd5 Qd7 29. Nxf6+ Bxf6 30. Bc4 a5 31. a3 Ra8 32. Rb5 a4 33. Qe2 Bg7 34. Bd5 Ra7 35. Kf2 Bf6 36. Rb6 Kf8 37. Rdb1 Bg7 38. g4 Bh8 39. Kg3 f5 40. g5 Qh7 41. Bxc6 bxc6 42. Rxc6 1-0 -g >The opening choice was simply bad. > >Michael > >>I have to admit that, as the game progresses, DJ invents a new dance called "the >>dark-square bishop shuffle" which, whether good chess or not, is not pleasing to >>the eye. Moving a piece aimlessly backwards and forwards is usually an indicator >>that a computer is in a position it does not understand well. >> >>-g >> >>>On ICC there are a few GM's that in longer games, just make the machines look >>>stupid. It is almost insane how easily they win. There is also an IM on ICC >>>named IgorIvanov. He plays my computer all the time (Shredder 8), and even in a >>>blitz game (5 3), he can win _easily_. >>> >>>Peter
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