Author: Daniel Clausen
Date: 04:50:24 10/19/04
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On October 19, 2004 at 06:47:40, martin fierz wrote: >On October 19, 2004 at 06:06:05, Daniel Clausen wrote: > >>On October 19, 2004 at 05:57:06, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >> >>[snip] >> >>>In a few years no humans will have a chance (under current rules). Computers >>>still have huge strategic holes - there is a lot of progress still to be made. >>>Chess is tactical enough that a 15-ply search compensates in practice for all >>>sorts of strategic deficiency. It's hard to beat somebody who is stronger than >>>you tactically. >>> >>>It's a sort of interesting accident that computer vs human is balanced at the >>>moment. If the game was more tactical, humans would already be crushed and we >>>would accept it as a matter of course. If it was more positional, humans would >>>still be stronger, maybe much stronger. >> >>*agrees to everything* :) >> >>A game more tactical than Chess is Othello (also called Reversi) where humans >>have no chance since many years. A game less tactical is Go, where the best >>computers play like weak amateurs. > >is that so? isn't it just that the branching factor in othello is much smaller >than in chess, while in go it is much larger? Maybe we use different definitions of 'tactical'. For me a (chess or Othello) position is tactical when correct play can't be guided by patterns and knowledge but has to be calculated completely. (Kh1 in Fine70 is an example - branching factor is low but you have to calculate one way or the other) While there definitely are patterns/knowledge that human Othello players use, it often doesn't help them a lot against computer opponents. The best human players are often not even able to play the last 10-15 moves perfectly. A friend of mine made the experience with his engine, that the top players looked OK deep in the mid game but as soon as his engine calculated completely until the end, the human had simple NO chance - they just blundered too often. >and another question: do you think if we were to reduce the tactical content of >chess by removing the queens in the starting position, would the computers get >much weaker? Good question... I guess they'd become weaker but I have no clue by how much. Food for thought. :) Sargon
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