Author: Uri Blass
Date: 00:35:46 12/13/04
Go up one level in this thread
On December 13, 2004 at 00:59:12, Peter Skinner wrote:
>On December 13, 2004 at 00:52:05, Anthony Cozzie wrote:
>
>>I mentioned earlier that I thought a small increment would be good, and it seems
>>a number of other people have had similar thoughts. The reason I like it is
>>that with a long increment that one 150 move game just takes forever (at a 10s
>>increment it would get an extra half an hour!), and with a tournament as big as
>>CCT there is always SOMEONE who has a 150 move game. Especially if Uri joins :)
>> So I prefer having a mostly fixed timecontrol. OTOH, this means that we will
>>have to manage our time carefully.
>>
>>anthony
>
>Well there were a number of people that mentioned it here, and in emails to me.
>
>The consensus was to have each round last no more than 2 hours.
>
>First day = 5 rounds x 2 hours = 10 hours + 15 mins between rounds to ensure
>proper pairings.
>
>That is a long day.
>
>The second day isn't much shorter either.
>
>And you can bet if Uri joins he will stretch that 50 + 3 into a day somehow :)
>
>Peter
Yes
Movei is an expert in long games
I believe that in WBEC it was the first program to get a game with more than 300
moves(a previous game against Ant could also get more than 300 moves but Leo
stopped it and adjudicated it as a draw).
Movei could do it shorter and win it's won position but I guess that lack of
knowledge togetehr with not using hash tables for pruning was a problem for it.
64.Kc5 and 65.Nc4 are winning but unfortunately movei cannot find these moves in
a reasonable time and I doubt if it could win later.
depth=20 +2.83 d5e5 d7c6 b6b7 c6c7 e5e6 c7b8 e6f6 f3d1 b4b5 b8c7 f6g5 c7b8 b5b6
d1e2 g5f4 e2f3 f4f5 f3d1 f5e6 d1f3
Nodes: 251995904 NPS: 754072
Time: 00:05:34.18
depth=20 +2.83 d5e5 d7c6 b6b7 c6c7 e5e6 c7b8 e6f6 f3d1 b4b5 b8c7 f6g5 c7b8 b5b6
d1e2 g5f4 e2f3 f4f5 f3d1 f5e6 d1f3
Nodes: 370056572 NPS: 752973
Time: 00:08:11.46
depth=21 +2.85 d5e5 f3g2 b4b5 g2f1 b6b7 d7c7 e5d5 c7b8 d5e6 f1g2 e6e5 g2f1 e5f5
f1e2 f5f4 b8a7 b5b6 a7b8 f4g5 e2f3 g5f5 f3e2
Nodes: 1146921733 NPS: 757669
Time: 00:25:13.75
Note that if I want to destroy the tournament for you(no intention to do it) I
can tell movei to win as slow as possible and in positions when it has a big
advantage to prefer more moves with no conversion and longer mates.
I guess that in that case movei may need easily more than 500 moves to win some
KBPPP vs K without breaking the 50 move rule.
In KPPPP vs K If you promote 4 pawns in the second rank and sacrifice 3 queens
you may need even 1400 moves for checkmate in the following way:
1.capturing the last piece of black
51.a3
101.a4
151.a5
201.a6
251.a7
301.a8=Q
351.b3
401.b4
451.b5
501.b6
551.b7
601.b8=Q
...
901.c8=Q
...
1201.d8=Q
1250.sacrifice one queen
1300.sacrifice second queen
1350.sacrifice 3th queen
1400.checkmate
1400*3*2=8400 seconds=140 minutes increasement
100+140=240 minutes so if the opponent use their time a game may take 4 hours.
[Event "WBEC9 1st Division"]
[Site "MP2600"]
[Date "2004.12.06"]
[Round "4.4"]
[Number "632"]
[White "Movei 0.08.295"]
[Black "Gromit 3.8.2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[TimeControl "40/2400"]
1. d4 e6 2. Nf3 d5 3. c4 c5 4. cxd5 exd5 5. g3 Nc6 6. Bg2 Nf6 7. O-O Be7 8.
Nc3 O-O 9. Bg5 cxd4 10. Nxd4 h6 11. Be3 Re8 12. Rc1 Bf8 13. Nxc6 bxc6 14.
Na4 Bd7 15. Bc5 Bxc5 16. Nxc5 Bg4 17. Re1 Qa5 18. f3 Bf5 19. a3 Rab8 20.
Qd4 Qb5 21. e4 dxe4 22. fxe4 Rbd8 23. Qc3 Bg6 24. e5 Nd5 25. Qb3 Ne7 26.
Qxb5 cxb5 27. e6 Rd2 28. exf7+ Bxf7 29. Ne4 Rd4 30. Nc3 a6 31. Bb7 Rd6 32.
Ne4 Re6 33. Nc5 Rxe1+ 34. Rxe1 a5 35. Bf3 a4 36. Nb7 Nf5 37. Rxe8+ Bxe8 38.
Kf2 Kf8 39. Be4 Bd7 40. Nc5 Bc8 41. Bd3 Nd6 42. Ke3 Ke7 43. Ne4 Bf5 44.
Nxd6 Bxd3 45. Nc8+ Kd8 46. Na7 Bf1 47. Kd4 b4 48. axb4 g5 49. Kc5 Kd7 50.
Nb5 h5 51. Nc3 Bg2 52. b5 Kc7 53. Nxa4 h4 54. Nb6 Kb7 55. Nc4 Bf3 56. Nd6+
Kc7 57. b6+ Kd7 58. Nf7 hxg3 59. hxg3 g4 60. b3 Be2 61. b4 Kc8 62. Nd6+ Kd7
63. Kd5 Bf3+ 64. Ke5 Kc6 65. b7 Kc7 66. Kf5 Be2 67. Kg5 Kb8 68. Kh4 Bf3 69.
b5 Be2 70. Kh5 Bf3 71. Kh6 Be2 72. Kg7 Bd3 73. Kf7 Be2 74. Kg6 Bd1 75. Kf5
Kc7 76. Ke5 Kb8 77. Kf4 Bf3 78. Kf5 Be2 79. Ke6 Bf3 80. Ke7 Bd5 81. Kf6 Bf3
82. Ke6 Kc7 83. Ke7 Kb8 84. Kf6 Be2 85. Kg5 Bd1 86. Kg6 Bf3 87. Kh5 Bd1 88.
Kg5 Be2 89. Kh6 Bf3 90. Kh7 Bd5 91. b6 Bf3 92. Kg6 Bh1 93. Kh6 Bf3 94. Kh5
Be2 95. Kg6 Bf3 96. Kf6 Be2 97. Kf7 Bd3 98. Ke7 Be2 99. Kf6 Bf3 100. Ke6
Bd5+ 101. Ke5 Bc6 102. Kd4 Bg2 103. Kc4 Bd5+ 104. Kd3 Bc6 105. Ke2 Bf3+
106. Kd2 Bc6 107. Kd3 Bf3 108. Kc2 Bd5 109. Kd1 Bg2 110. Ke1 Bf3 111. Kf1
Bd5 112. Kf2 Bf3 113. Ke3 Bd5 114. Kf4 Bf3 115. Kg5 Bd1 116. Kf5 Bf3 117.
Kf4 Bd1 118. Ke5 Bf3 119. Kf5 Be2 120. Ke6 Bf3 121. Nc4 Kxb7 122. Kd6 Bg2
123. Ne3 Bf3 124. Kc5 Kb8 125. Kd4 Kb7 126. Nc4 Bh1 127. Kc5 Kc8 128. Kb5
Bg2 129. Ka6 Kb8 130. Nd6 Bf1+ 131. Ka5 Bd3 132. Kb4 Be2 133. Kc3 Bf3 134.
Kd3 Ka8 135. Kd2 Bc6 136. Ke2 Bf3+ 137. Ke3 Kb8 138. Kf4 Bd1 139. Ke4 Bf3+
140. Ke3 Ka8 141. Kd4 Bg2 142. Ke5 Kb8 143. Ke6 Ka8 144. Ke7 Kb8 145. Kf7
Ka8 146. Kf8 Kb8 147. Kg7 Ka8 148. Kh6 Bf3 149. Kh7 Kb8 150. Kg6 Ka8 151.
Kh6 Be2 152. Kh7 Kb8 153. Kg8 Bf1 154. Kg7 Bg2 155. Kg6 Ka8 156. Kf7 Bc6
157. Ke7 Bf3 158. Kd7 Kb8 159. Ke6 Bh1 160. Kf7 Ka8 161. Kf6 Kb8 162. Kg6
Ka8 163. Kh5 Bf3 164. Kh4 Be2 165. Kg5 Kb8 166. Kg6 Bd1 167. b7 Kc7 168.
Kg7 Bf3 169. Kh7 Kb8 170. Kg6 Ka7 171. Kg7 Kb8 172. Kf8 Bd5 173. Ke7 Bf3
174. Kf7 Bg2 175. Kg6 Bf3 176. Kh7 Bd1 177. Kh6 Bf3 178. Kh5 Kc7 179. Kh4
Kb8 180. Kg5 Be2 181. Kf6 Bd3 182. Kf7 Bh7 183. Ke6 Bb1 184. Kd5 Bh7 185.
Kc4 Bb1 186. Kc3 Bg6 187. Kd2 Bb1 188. Ke3 Bc2 189. Kd4 Bd1 190. Kd3 Bf3
191. Kc2 Bg2 192. Kd2 Bc6 193. Ke2 Ka7 194. Kf2 Kb8 195. Ke3 Bf3 196. Kd3
Kc7 197. Kd4 Bg2 198. Ke5 Bf3 199. Kf6 Bd1 200. Ke7 Bf3 201. Kf7 Be2 202.
Ke6 Bf3 203. Ke5 Be2 204. Kf5 Kb8 205. Ke4 Bf3+ 206. Ke3 Bg2 207. Kf4 Bf3
208. Nb5 Kxb7 209. Nd4 Bg2 210. Kxg4 Kc7 211. Kf4 Kd6 212. g4 Kd5 213. Nc2
Be4 214. Ne3+ Kd4 215. Nf5+ Kd5 216. Ne7+ Kd4 217. Ng8 Bd5 218. Nf6 Bc4
219. Ne8 Bf7 220. Nd6 Be6 221. g5 Kd5 222. Ne4 Bf7 223. Kf5 Be6+ 224. Kf6
Bg8 225. Nc3+ Kc4 226. Kg7 Be6 227. Ne2 Bg4 228. Ng3 Bd7 229. Kf6 Be8 230.
Nf5 Kd5 231. Ng7 Bc6 232. g6 Kd6 233. Ne6 Bd5 234. Nf4 Bc4 235. Ng2 Bg8
236. Ne1 Kd7 237. Nc2 Kd6 238. Nd4 Kd7 239. g7 Kd8 240. Nf5 Bd5 241. Ne7
Bc4 242. Nc6+ Ke8 243. Ne5 Bd5 244. Nf3 Bg8 245. Ng5 Kd7 246. Nh3 Kd6 247.
Ng1 Kd7 248. Ne2 Kd6 249. Nf4 Kd7 250. Ng2 Kd6 251. Nh4 Kd7 252. Ng6 Kd8
253. Ne5 Ke8 254. Nd3 Bd5 255. Nf4 Bg8 256. Ne6 Kd7 257. Ng5 Ke8 258. Nf3
Kd7 259. Nd2 Kd6 260. Nb1 Kd5 261. Nc3+ Kd6 262. Ne2 Kd7 263. Ng3 Kd8 264.
Nf1 Kd7 265. Ne3 Kd8 266. Ng4 Ke8 267. Nf2 Kd8 268. Nd1 Kd7 269. Nb2 Kd6
270. Nd3 Kd7 271. Nc5+ Kd6 272. Na6 Kd5 273. Ke7 Ke5 274. Nc5 Bc4 275. Nd3+
Kd4 276. Nf4 Ke5 277. Ng6+ Kf5 278. Nh8 Bg8 279. Kf8 Bh7 280. Nf7 Kf6 281.
Nd6 Ke6 282. Nc8 Kf6 283. Na7 Ke5 284. Nb5 Ke6 285. Nc3 Kf6 286. Ne2 Ke6
287. g8=N Bxg8 288. Nd4+ Kd7 289. Nb5 Be6 290. Na3 Kc7 291. Nc2 Kd7 292.
Nb4 Kc7 293. Na6+ Kd8 294. Nc5 Bd7 295. Na6 Kc8 296. Nc5 Kd8 297. Nb3 Kc8
298. Na1 Kd8 299. Nc2 Kc8 300. Na1 Kd8 301. Nc2 Kc8 302. Na1
{Movei-> Draw by repetition} 1/2-1/2
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