Author: Uri Blass
Date: 07:59:27 02/18/05
Go up one level in this thread
On February 18, 2005 at 10:30:42, Arturo Ochoa wrote: >On February 18, 2005 at 04:50:13, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On February 18, 2005 at 04:25:37, Sune Fischer wrote: >> >>> >>>>>These so called "killer books" are always used by very strong engines on top >>>>>hardware. >>>>>The killer books seem to work best against weaker engines on weaker hardware. >>>>>Now isn't that odd? :) >>>> >>>>Killer books are in most of the cases for rich people who can pay for book >>>>makers so it is not a surprise that they work against engines with weaker >>>>hardware that do not have time to prepare. >>> >>>That could be the reason, but the point is that it won't show a lot because >>>these engines are so strong already that they would have won even with a bad >>>book. >>> >>>It would be far more interesting to give Beowulf a 700 Elo book and then go >>>wipeout Shredder & co in the big tournaments. :) >>> >>>>I also do not beliebe in 700 elo but I certainly believe that they can improve >>>>the performance by 100-200 elo in a tournament when part of the opponents. >>>> >>>>If you have statistics of a lot of games that you get 70% against some program >>>>with line A and 50% against the same program with line B then choosing line A is >>>>important. >>>> >>>>If you have similar statistics for many programs then it may give you >>>>significant increase in performance in tournaments. >>> >>>I tend to think the effect is mostly psychological. >>> >>>I can see how comming out of book with a +0.6 score against an equal opponent >>>must feel like half a victory, and it's not hard for me to imagine that some >>>would call that totally winning :) >> >>I am not talking about score but about statistics >> >>It is possible to test engine A against engine B in many openings. >> >>If opening X leads to 50% and opening Y leads to 70% then opening X is better >>against engine B(it does not mean that it is better generally against >>everything). >>> >>>>Even with no special preperation against specific opponent you may have >>>>statistics that your program score 60% with 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.f3 and only 50% >>>>against the same opponents with 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 so of course opening >>>>preperation can help significantly in tournament. >>> >>>I believe such is thing is possible, but increasing your score from 50% to 60% >>>is still not much more than 50-100 Elo. >>> >>>-S. >> >>I agree so I do not think general preperation can give you more than 50-100 elo >>preperation against specific opponents can give you another 50-100 elo so the >>general improvement in tournaments can be 100-200 elo. >> >>Uri > >Again the question: how do you know that? Have you ever run any test that holds >your suppositions? If you tune very well a book against a specific opponent and >your opponent is similar in strength and you get the 90% of the score. What is >the elo of your engine against this engine? Only 100-200 elo. > >Provide facts...... The problem is that there are engines that you cannot prepare against them. If the specific opponent is static you are right but considering the fact that part of the opponents are not static target and even if they did not work about the book they worked about the engine my guess is only 100-200 elo Uri
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