Author: Uri Blass
Date: 08:19:30 02/18/05
Go up one level in this thread
On February 18, 2005 at 10:20:50, Arturo Ochoa wrote: > >>Killer books are in most of the cases for rich people who can pay for book >>makers so it is not a surprise that they work against engines with weaker >>hardware that do not have time to prepare. >> > >This is already a crappy declaration. I have never earned any money from >computer chess since I have a good job in my country. I just do it for fun, >while you expect to sell your engine. I dont know who could buy your software >nowing the person. > >I have been working on book over the last 6 years and I neve sell one of those >books. I know top engine whose booker are doing the work freely. However, these >declaration reveals how you often act.... I prefer people realizes about this. > >>If the opponent also prepares a special book then it is hard to use a killer >>book against him because you do not know what he is going to play. >> > >Well, Christopher Columbus discovered America 500 years ago. Now, you pretend to >discover it in a glass of water. That is obvious. However, there are ways to >sort out such difficulties. > >> >>> >>>Somehow you must at least factor the engine+hardware strength out of the >>>equation before you can say anything about the book being killer or not. >>> > >What is your equation? > >>>Also these books are not subject for massive statistical testing, they are >>>private and only used rarely which in makes it all a big load of guesswork. >>> > >How do you know that are not subject of massive statitical testing if such tests >are private? It is incredible how you suppose and guess without any relevant >fact. That is the absurd world of Uri Blass. > > >>>But think about 700 Elo, seriously that's is like getting a rook up in the >>>opening. I don't believe it. >> >>I also do not beliebe in 700 elo but I certainly believe that they can improve >>the performance by 100-200 elo in a tournament when part of the opponents. >> > >It is not an absolute range. It depends on th enegine and book integration, and >the testing. > > >>If you have statistics of a lot of games that you get 70% against some program >>with line A and 50% against the same program with line B then choosing line A is >>important. >> >>If you have similar statistics for many programs then it may give you >>significant increase in performance in tournaments. >> >>Even with no special preperation against specific opponent you may have >>statistics that your program score 60% with 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.f3 and only 50% >>against the same opponents with 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 so of course opening >>preperation can help significantly in tournament. >> > >To be or not to be? What is the sense of this idea? > > >>I think that it is boring to work about calculating all this statistics so I do >>not plan to do it by myself and there are enough other improvements that can be >>done in the engine. >> > >It seems to be you have got your root with your engine. And you seems not to >realize what components are really important. > > >>Note that the statistics may be changed if the engine is improved so I condiser >>all the statistics as not important because I do not see special importance for >>what will happpen in tournaments in the near future with movei and I do not plan >>to win tournaments anyway(movei is too weak for that and getting better place is >>not something so important) >> > >Question: If you dont plan to participate in Tournament, why do you spend time >in this activity and why do you say all this nonsense in this Forum? > >>Note that learning for movei is based on trying to repeat lines that movei won >>in wbec and avoiding line that it lost. >> >>This learning hopefully help the engine to perform better in WBEC that I >>consider as clearly more important than tournaments like WCCC or CCT >> > >Well, the fact that you have not succeded in official Tournaments, it doesnt >mean that they are not important. The Tournaments dont depend on the Uri Blass' >World. Uri Blass must realize how to win Official Tournaments. When movei will be stonger I may care more about tournaments. Today in nunn type position it is more than 200 elo weaker than the top programs so I do not care about trying to win official tournaments(I do not believe that I have good chances anyway(in the best case movei could score similiar to Jonny with better book but not become world champion). If it gets to the level that it gets 50% or almost 50% in nunn type test against the best software then I think that it is going to be a different story. In that case book is important but again if the engine is strong enough(get 70% in nunn type match against shredder) then even without book it has good chances to win WCCC in case that the opponents do not have it and cannot prepare against it). I can add that quark even got less points than movei in the last tournament so movei's result is not extremely bad considering the fact that quark is probably not weaker than movei. Uri
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