Author: Arturo Ochoa
Date: 08:57:05 02/18/05
Go up one level in this thread
On February 18, 2005 at 11:19:30, Uri Blass wrote: >On February 18, 2005 at 10:20:50, Arturo Ochoa wrote: > >> >>>Killer books are in most of the cases for rich people who can pay for book >>>makers so it is not a surprise that they work against engines with weaker >>>hardware that do not have time to prepare. >>> >> >>This is already a crappy declaration. I have never earned any money from >>computer chess since I have a good job in my country. I just do it for fun, >>while you expect to sell your engine. I dont know who could buy your software >>nowing the person. >> >>I have been working on book over the last 6 years and I neve sell one of those >>books. I know top engine whose booker are doing the work freely. However, these >>declaration reveals how you often act.... I prefer people realizes about this. >> >>>If the opponent also prepares a special book then it is hard to use a killer >>>book against him because you do not know what he is going to play. >>> >> >>Well, Christopher Columbus discovered America 500 years ago. Now, you pretend to >>discover it in a glass of water. That is obvious. However, there are ways to >>sort out such difficulties. >> >>> >>>> >>>>Somehow you must at least factor the engine+hardware strength out of the >>>>equation before you can say anything about the book being killer or not. >>>> >> >>What is your equation? >> >>>>Also these books are not subject for massive statistical testing, they are >>>>private and only used rarely which in makes it all a big load of guesswork. >>>> >> >>How do you know that are not subject of massive statitical testing if such tests >>are private? It is incredible how you suppose and guess without any relevant >>fact. That is the absurd world of Uri Blass. >> >> >>>>But think about 700 Elo, seriously that's is like getting a rook up in the >>>>opening. I don't believe it. >>> >>>I also do not beliebe in 700 elo but I certainly believe that they can improve >>>the performance by 100-200 elo in a tournament when part of the opponents. >>> >> >>It is not an absolute range. It depends on th enegine and book integration, and >>the testing. >> >> >>>If you have statistics of a lot of games that you get 70% against some program >>>with line A and 50% against the same program with line B then choosing line A is >>>important. >>> >>>If you have similar statistics for many programs then it may give you >>>significant increase in performance in tournaments. >>> >>>Even with no special preperation against specific opponent you may have >>>statistics that your program score 60% with 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.f3 and only 50% >>>against the same opponents with 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 so of course opening >>>preperation can help significantly in tournament. >>> >> >>To be or not to be? What is the sense of this idea? >> >> >>>I think that it is boring to work about calculating all this statistics so I do >>>not plan to do it by myself and there are enough other improvements that can be >>>done in the engine. >>> >> >>It seems to be you have got your root with your engine. And you seems not to >>realize what components are really important. >> >> >>>Note that the statistics may be changed if the engine is improved so I condiser >>>all the statistics as not important because I do not see special importance for >>>what will happpen in tournaments in the near future with movei and I do not plan >>>to win tournaments anyway(movei is too weak for that and getting better place is >>>not something so important) >>> >> >>Question: If you dont plan to participate in Tournament, why do you spend time >>in this activity and why do you say all this nonsense in this Forum? >> >>>Note that learning for movei is based on trying to repeat lines that movei won >>>in wbec and avoiding line that it lost. >>> >>>This learning hopefully help the engine to perform better in WBEC that I >>>consider as clearly more important than tournaments like WCCC or CCT >>> >> >>Well, the fact that you have not succeded in official Tournaments, it doesnt >>mean that they are not important. The Tournaments dont depend on the Uri Blass' >>World. Uri Blass must realize how to win Official Tournaments. > >When movei will be stonger I may care more about tournaments. >Today in nunn type position it is more than 200 elo weaker than the top programs >so I do not care about trying to win official tournaments(I do not believe that >I have good chances anyway(in the best case movei could score similiar to Jonny >with better book but not become world champion). My questio is still this: If you dont _plan_ to win Tournament, what is the sense to participate in? > >If it gets to the level that it gets 50% or almost 50% in nunn type test against >the best software then I think that it is going to be a different story. > >In that case book is important but again if the engine is strong enough(get 70% >in nunn type match against shredder) then even without book it has good chances >to win WCCC in case that the opponents do not have it and cannot prepare against >it). This is unrealistic. Official Tournaments are no based in Nunn Tiny and common books? What is the point to test a engine with the Nunn Position for preparing to an Official Tournament? Is it not relevant to the point. > >I can add that quark even got less points than movei in the last tournament so >movei's result is not extremely bad considering the fact that quark is probably >not weaker than movei. > Quark has gotten better points in all the previous Tournaments. It doesnt prove that Quark is weaker than Movei. The example is not good.
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.