Author: Jeremiah Penery
Date: 08:56:55 05/18/05
Go up one level in this thread
On May 18, 2005 at 07:23:31, Uri Blass wrote:
>On May 18, 2005 at 03:24:42, Jeremiah Penery wrote:
>
>>On May 17, 2005 at 22:31:25, Eelco de Groot wrote:
>>
>>>Pro Deo 1.1 Q5T about Nolot #3, keymove is supposed to be Nxg5, most programs
>>>eventually play Bxg5. So does the Q5T, but only with +0.36
>>>[D]r2qk2r/ppp1b1pp/2n1p3/3pP1n1/3P2b1/2PB1NN1/PP4PP/R1BQK2R w KQkq - bm Nxg5; id
>>>"Position 3";
>>>
>>...
>>> 00:00:21 11.00 0.54 1.Qc2 Bxf3 2.gxf3 Nxf3 3.Kd1 Qd7 4.Nh5 O-O-O
>>> 5.Nxg7 Rdg8 6.Nxe6 Ncxe5
>>> 00:01:02 12.00 0.46 1.Qc2 Bxf3 2.gxf3 Nxf3 3.Kd1 Qd7 4.Rf1 Nfxd4
>>> 5.cxd4 Nxd4 6.Qc3 c5 7.Ne2 Nxe2 8.Kxe2 O-O-O
>>> 9.Rf7
>>> 00:01:12 12.01 0.58 1.Bxg5 Bxg5 2.O-O Qe7 3.h3
>>> 00:04:15 13.00 0.36 1.Bxg5 Bxg5 2.h3 Bh4 3.hxg4 Bxg3 4.Kf1 Qd7
>>> 5.Rh3
>>>
>>>Vulcan Q1 does not find either Bxg5 or Nxg5 with a high score, with a slightly
>>>different positional evauation for mobility etc., it thinks h3 is best. This
>>>Nolot #3 position is still not "solved"
>>>(See also http://www.seanet.com/~brucemo/nolot/nolot.htm).
>>>
>>...
>>> 00:00:40 11.10 0.60 1.Rf1 g6 2.Bxg5 Bxg5 3.Qc2 Qe7 4.Nxg5 Qxg5
>>> 5.Qd2 Qxd2
>>> 00:01:09 12.00 0.32 1.Rf1 Nxf3 2.gxf3 Bh3 3.Rg1 Bh4 4.Kd2 a5 5.Kc2
>>> Ne7 6.Nh5
>>> 00:01:18 12.01 0.57 1.h3 Bxf3 2.gxf3 g6 3.f4 Nf7 4.Rg1 Rf8 5.Qb3
>>> Na5
>>> 00:02:12 13.00 0.70 1.h3 Bxf3 2.gxf3 g6 3.f4 Nf7 4.Rg1 Bh4 5.b3
>>> Nh6 6.Ba3 Be7 7.Bxe7
>>> 00:04:28 14.00 0.73 1.h3 Bxf3 2.gxf3 g6 3.f4 Nf7 4.Rg1 Rf8 5.f5
>>> 00:12:18 15.00 0.64 1.h3 Bxf3 2.gxf3
>>
>>I've studied the Nolot positions a lot, and I'm quite sure that position #3 is
>>correct with Nxg5. White has a crushing attack, and most of black's pieces are
>>paralyzed.
>>
>>This is output from a modified Crafty 19.19, with some form of singular
>>extensions among other things:
>>
>>White(1): analyze
>>Analyze Mode: type "exit" to terminate.
>> clearing hash tables
>> time surplus 0.00 time limit 22.50 (3:30)
>> depth time score variation (1)
>> ...
>> 11 15.76 0.14 1. Be3 O-O 2. Bxg5 Bxg5 3. Qc2 h6 4.
>> Bh7+ Kh8 5. Nxg5 Qxg5 6. Rf1 Rxf1+
>> 7. Nxf1
>> 11 20.06 0.20 1. Bxg5 Bxg5(S) 2. Rf1(H) Qe7(H) 3.
>> Qa4(H) Bf4(H) 4. Ne2(H) Be3(H) 5. h3(H)
>> Bh5(H) 6. Qd1(H) <HT>
>> 11-> 23.59 0.20 1. Bxg5 Bxg5(S) 2. Rf1 Qe7 3. Qa4 Bf4
>> 4. Ne2 Be3 5. h3 Bh5 6. Qd1 <HT>
>> 12 31.70 0.03 1. Bxg5 Bxg5(S) 2. Rf1 Qe7 3. Qa4 O-O-O
>> 4. Bb5 Nb8 5. Nxg5 Qxg5 6. Qxa7 Rhf8
>> 12 1:03 0.08 1. Be3 g6 2. Bb5 Ne4 3. Qa4 Qd7 4.
>> Nxe4 dxe4 5. Ng5 O-O-O 6. O-O Bf5 7.
>> Bxc6 Qxc6 8. Qxa7
>> 12 1:23 0.41 1. Nxg5 Bxd1(S) 2. Nxe6(H) Qb8(H) 3.
>> Nxg7+(H) Kf7(H) 4. Bh6(H) Bf8(H) 5.
>> Rf1+(H) Kg8(H) 6. N3f5(H) Bg4(H) 7.
>> e6(H) <HT>
>> 12-> 1:31 0.41 1. Nxg5 Bxd1(S) 2. Nxe6 Qb8 3. Nxg7+
>> Kf7(S) 4. Bh6 Bf8 5. Rf1+ Kg8 6. N3f5
>> Bg4 7. e6 <HT>
>> 13 2:05 0.70 1. Nxg5 Bxd1(S) 2. Nxe6 Qc8(S) 3. Nxg7+
>> Kf7(S) 4. O-O+(H) Kxg7(H) 5. Nf5+(H)
>> Qxf5(H) 6. Bxf5(H) Bh5(H) 7. b4(H)
>> Bg6(H) 8. Bg4(H) <HT>
>> 13-> 2:32 0.70 1. Nxg5 Bxd1(S) 2. Nxe6 Qc8(S) 3. Nxg7+
>> Kf7(S) 4. O-O+ Kxg7(S) 5. Nf5+ Qxf5
>> 6. Bxf5 Bh5 7. b4 Bg6 8. Bg4 <HT>
>>
>>The score continues to rise at higher iterations.
>>
>> 17-> 27:17 1.24 1. Nxg5 Bxd1 2. Nxe6 Qb8(S) 3. Nxg7+
>> Kf7 4. N7f5 Ba4 5. O-O Ke8 6. b3(S)
>> Bxb3 7. axb3 <HT>
>
>
>I tried Movei in the position after 1.Nxg5 and I get only a draw score at depth
>17 but the pv seems to be good for white.
>
>I could prove +1.7 for white with yaceafter Bxd1 Nxe6 Qb8 Nxg7+ Kf8 Bh6 Bg4
>0-0+ Kg8 Rf4
>
>When I go back and let yace to learn it seems that Bg4 is not good and Ba4 is
>better but yace still report a significant advantage for white(1.39 pawns for
>white for Ba4)
>
>When I continue to go back Yace see only a draw for Crafty's move Kf7 but more
>invistigation discovers
>4.Bh6 Bf8 5.0-0+ Kg8 6.Rxf8+ Qxf8 7.Rxd1 with +2.08 for white so I go backward
>Yace prefers 4...Ba4 but again it is a big advantage for white when going
>backward it suggests 4...b5 with 1.48 for white but again it does not seem to be
>a good move so it seems that both Kf8 and Kf7 are bad and the black king needs
>to go to the d file.
That is probably true, but then black has to waste some moves freeing the queen
and rook stuck over in that corner. I'm not sure if the lines I'm seeing are
any good here:
10-> 4.10 0.71 4. Kxd1 Rg8 5. Ne6+ Kd7 6. Bf5 Bh4
7. Nc5+ Ke8 8. Bxh7 Rg7 9. Bf5 Kd8
11 19.21 0.85 4. Kxd1 a6 5. Re1 Qa7 6. Ne6+ Kc8 7.
Nf5 Re8 8. Ng5 Rg8 9. h4(H) <HT>
11-> 21.68 0.85 4. Kxd1 a6 5. Re1 Qa7 6. Ne6+ Kc8 7.
Nf5 Re8 8. Ng5 Rg8 9. h4 <HT>
12 40.11 0.82 4. Kxd1 a6 5. Rf1 b6 6. N3f5 Rg8 7.
Nxe7 Nxe7 8. Bxh7 Rh8 9. Ne6+ Kc8
12-> 53.52 0.82 4. Kxd1 a6 5. Rf1 b6 6. N3f5 Rg8 7.
Nxe7 Nxe7 8. Bxh7 Rh8 9. Ne6+ Kc8
13 1:57 0.95 4. Kxd1 a6 5. Rf1 Qa7 6. Rf7 Qb6 7.
N3f5 Nxe5 8. dxe5 Qg1+ 9. Kc2 Qxg2+
10. Bd2 Bc5
13-> 2:22 0.95 4. Kxd1 a6 5. Rf1 Qa7 6. Rf7 Qb6 7.
N3f5 Nxe5 8. dxe5 Qg1+ 9. Kc2 Qxg2+
10. Bd2 Bc5
14 8:44 1.07 4. Kxd1 a6 5. Rf1 Qa7(S) 6. Rf7 Qb6
7. N3f5 h6 8. h4(H) Rc8(H) 9. Ne6+(H)
Ke8(H) <HT>
14-> 9:44 1.07 4. Kxd1 a6 5. Rf1 Qa7(S) 6. Rf7 Qb6
7. N3f5 h6 8. h4 Rc8 9. Ne6+ Ke8 <HT>
>3...Kd8 is evaluated by yace as 0.54/12 for white
>When I go backward yace suggest Qc8 and it seems that I need to repeat all the
>process for Qc8 to get positive score for white with yace.
Qc8 is no good, because it is just wasting a tempo. White plays Bf5 soon and
forces the queen to b8 anyway.
13-> 2:54 1.26 3. Bf5 Qb8(S) 4. Nxg7+ Kf7(S) 5. Bh6
Bf8(S) 6. e6+ Kf6 7. h4 Ke7 8. Rxd1
Kd8 9. O-O Be7 10. h5
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