Author: Eelco de Groot
Date: 03:44:27 06/18/05
Go up one level in this thread
In the correct position with the King on g1, unfortunately Pro Deo 1.1 Ripley cannot find the move 1.Bh3 [D]8/8/4kpp1/3p1b2/p6P/2B5/6P1/6K1 b - - 0 1 Pro Deo 1.1 Ripley in the correct position 00:00:00.2 2,20 5 1890 a3 Kf2 Be4 g4 Bd3 00:00:00.2 2,12 6 5252 a3 Kf2 Be4 g4 f5 gxf5+ Bxf5 00:00:00.2 2,08 7 15614 a3 Kf2 Bc2 Ke3 f5 Kd2 Be4 00:00:00.2 2,10 8 41314 a3 Kf2 Bc2 Ke3 f5 Kd2 Be4 g3 Bf3 00:00:00.2 2,10 9 99814 a3 Kf2 Bc2 Ke3 f5 Kd2 Be4 g3 Bf3 00:00:00.4 2,00 10 307605 a3 Kf2 Bd3 g4 f5 gxf5+ Kxf5 Ke3 Bc4 Kd4 Ke6 00:00:00.5 2,07 10 466096 Be4 Kf2 f5 Bb2 Kd6 g3 Kc5 Ba3+ Kc4 Ke2 00:00:00.7 2,08 11 716271 Be4 Kf2 f5 Bb2 Kd6 g3 Kc5 Ke3 Kb4 Kd4 a3 Bc3+ Kb3 00:00:01.5 2,14 12 1838797 Be4 Kf2 f5 g3 Kd6 Bb4+ Ke5 Ke3 d4+ Kd2 Kd5 Be7 Kc4 Bd6 00:00:03.4 2,19 13 4576694 Be4 Kf2 f5 g3 Kd6 Bb4+ Ke5 Ke3 d4+ Kd2 Kd5 Ba3 Kc4 Bb2 Bd5 Kc2 00:00:06.8 2,19 14 9967859 Be4 Kf2 f5 g3 Kd6 Bb4+ Ke5 Ke3 d4+ Kd2 Kd5 Ba3 Kc4 Bb2 Bd5 Kc2 00:00:17.4 2,31 15 26566338 Be4 Kf2 f5 Bg7 a3 g3 Kd7 Ke3 Kc6 Bf8 a2 Bg7 Kc5 Bd4+ Kc4 Be5 Kc5 Bc3 Kc4 Be5 Kc5 Bc3 Kc4 00:00:41.9 2,44 16 65592836 Be4 Kf2 f5 Bg7 Bxg2 Kxg2 f4 Kf3 00:01:45.2 2,44 17 168917905 Be4 Bb2 f5 Kf2 Kd6 Bd4 a3 g3 Kc6 Bf6 Kb5 Bd8 Kb4 00:03:40.6 2,49 18 361719868 Be4 Bb2 f5 Kf2 Kd6 Bd4 a3 g3 Bc2 Ke3 00:08:32.2 2,55 19 851749844 Be4 Bb2 f5 Kf2 Kd6 Bd4 a3 g3 00:23:18.8 2,60 20 2375678514 Be4 Bb2 f5 Kf2 Kd6 g3 Kc5 Ke3 Kb4 Kd2 a3 Bf6 Kc4 Ke3 Bg2 Bg7 Bf3 01:32:49.4 2,55 21 1100303668 Be4 g3 f5 03:50:58.9 2,51 22 3430192464 Be4 g3 f5 But a tactical settings Pro Deo - Tactical Engine does play it! Pro Deo 1.1 Vulcan Q1e - Tactical Engine 00:00:00.2 3,87 7 32472 Bh3 00:00:00.2 3,87 7 20925 Be4 g3 a3 Kf2 Bd3 Ke3 00:00:00.2 3,85 8 41872 Be4 g3 Kd6 Bb4+ Ke5 Kf2 d4 00:00:00.2 3,85 8 46992 Bh3 00:00:00.2 4,06 8 49899 Bh3 g3 Kf5 Bd2 Ke4 Bb4 00:00:00.2 4,15 9 79702 Bh3 g3 Kf5 Kf2 Ke4 Bb4 d4 Ke2 Be6 00:00:00.3 4,21 10 173831 Bh3 g3 Kf5 Kf2 Ke4 Bb2 d4 Ke2 Be6 Kd2 00:00:00.6 4,15 11 571554 Bh3 Kh2 Kf5 Kxh3 Ke4 Bb2 d4 h5 a3 Bxa3 gxh5 00:00:01.1 3,97 12 1277006 Bh3 Kh2 Bxg2 Kxg2 f5 Kf3 Kd6 Bd4 Kc6 Bb2 Kc5 Ba3+ Kc4 Bc1 00:00:02.4 4,43 13 3185844 Bh3 Kh2 Bxg2 Kxg2 Kf5 Kf3 g5 h5 g4+ Kf2 Kg5 h6 00:00:03.5 4,43 14 5228428 Bh3 Kh2 Bxg2 Kxg2 Kf5 Kf3 g5 h5 g4+ Kf2 Kg5 h6 00:00:08.4 4,46 15 13239798 Bh3 Kh2 Bxg2 Kxg2 Kf5 Kf3 g5 h5 g4+ Kg3 Kg5 h6 Kxh6 Kxg4 00:00:26.4 5,07 16 43090785 Bh3 gxh3 Kf5 Bb2 Ke4 Kf2 d4 Ba3 f5 Ke2 f4 Bd6 f3+ Kf1 d3 00:00:44.1 5,07 17 75958695 Bh3 gxh3 Kf5 Bb2 Ke4 Kf2 d4 Ba3 f5 Ke2 f4 Bd6 f3+ Kf1 d3 00:01:50.2 4,99 18 192516416 Bh3 gxh3 Kf5 Bb2 Ke4 Kf2 d4 Ke2 00:04:29.3 4,99 19 488875601 Bh3 gxh3 Kf5 Bb2 Ke4 Kf2 d4 Ke2 00:14:06.0 4,84 20 1567725947 Bh3 gxh3 Kf5 Kf2 Ke4 Bxf6 d4 Be7 Kd3 Bc5 Kc4 00:53:20.4 6,11 21 1509141605 Bh3 gxh3 Kf5 Kf2 Ke4 Bxf6 d4 Be7 02:24:47.7 5,89 22 3556720731 Bh3 gxh3 Kf5 Kf2 Ke4 Bb2 f5 Ke2 f4 Vulcan Q1e has almost the same settings for King Safety, Attractiveness and Attacking as Q5T, so it is good to see it also plays Bh3. The endgame is difficult however and especially to see that other variations lead to a forced draw. Mark Dvoretsky has published an instructional column about this on Chess Cafe and kindly enough from Chess Cafe this is freely downloadable in PDF format: http://www.chesscafe.com/text/dvoretsky06.pdf It seems chesprograms have to learn about the intricacies of the Berger -Kotlerman endgame, Arkhangelsk 1948, to be able to see see that 1..Be4 is a draw for White in Topalov - Shirov. Old CCC-post: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject : Re: Topalov-Shirov Posted by : Eelco de Groot on February 15, 2001 at 03:56:10 On February 14, 2001 at 01:39:23, Jeremiah Penery wrote: >On February 13, 2001 at 20:43:07, Joshua Lee wrote: > >>No i am just showing that this isn't tough compared to the others and i think >>there should be a new suite with problems not solved under 1hour but some >>positions are solve in 30minutes with one program and 5 with another.... > >I think it would be really neat if someone created a new set of positions to >perhaps replace the Nolot ones. It's known that a couple of the Nolot solutions >are at least slightly dubious (#9 being foremost, #3 and #6 might also be, and >it can be argued that the solution to #8 may not be the "best" move). Also >nowadays, at least #11 is too easy for computers to be in a suite of "unsolvable >by computer" problems. > >Maybe if I have the time I'll look for some positions where the solution is >really the best move, provide/find analysis for them, and make sure they're >really hard for computers. > >One position that comes to mind already is Shirov's 47. ...Bh3!! against >Topalov, Linares 1998: >(I hope the diagram is correct.) >[D]8/8/4kpp1/3p1b2/p6P/2B5/6P1/6K1 b - - > >Computers find this extremely difficult, at the least. :) Are you sure this is the correct position, Jeremiah? Q5T personality for Rebel Century 2.0, only 512Kb transposition tables and 5 more engines in background, me typing and connecting to Internet: 00:00 07.01 3.27 1..Be4 00:02 08.02 3.23 1..Kd6 2.Bxf6 Kc5 3.Kf2 a3 4.Ke3 Be4 5.g4 00:03 09.00 3.25 1..Kd6 2.Kf2 Kc5 3.Bxf6 Kc4 4.Bb2+ Kb3 5.Bd4 Kc4 00:04 09.02 3.59 1..Bh3 2.g3 a3 3.Kf2 Bf5 4.Kf3 Be4+ 5.Ke3 Kd6 00:06 10.00 3.58 1..Bh3 2.g3 Kd6 3.Bd4 a3 4.Kf2 Bf5 5.h5 gxh5 00:11 11.00 2.93 1..Bh3 2.gxh3 Kf5 3.Kf2 a3 4.Ke3 Ke6 5.h5 gxh5 6.Kf4 00:18 11.01 3.49 1..Kd6 2.Bd4 Be4 3.g4 Bf3 00:37 12.00 3.57 1..Kd6 2.Bd4 Be4 3.g4 f5 4.gxf5 00:41 12.01 3.61 1..Bh3 2.Bb2 Kf5 3.g3 Ke4 4.Kf2 Bd7 01:02 13.00 2.91 1..Bh3 2.gxh3 Kf5 3.Kf2 a3 4.Ke3 Ke6 5.h5 01:35 13.01 3.42 1..Kd6 2.Bd4 Bd7 3.Kf2 f5 4.Ke3 03:05 14.00 3.61 1..Kd6 2.Bd4 Be4 3.g4 Bf3 03:09 14.01 3.61 1..Bh3 03:17 14.01 3.93 1..Bh3 2.Kh2 Bxg2 3.Kxg2 f5 4.Kf3 Kd6 5.Kf4+ Kc5 04:07 15.00 4.07 1..Bh3 2.Kh2 Bxg2 3.Kxg2 Kf5 4.Bb4 Ke4 5.Bc5+ 13:31 16.00 4.25 1..Bh3 2.gxh3 Kf5 3.Kf2 Ke4 4.Bb2 The Nolot position No.11 it has a lot more problems with finding the best move! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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