Author: Uri Blass
Date: 13:04:10 10/13/05
Go up one level in this thread
On October 13, 2005 at 15:15:46, chandler yergin wrote:
>On October 12, 2005 at 19:17:14, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On October 12, 2005 at 18:38:35, Thomas Logan wrote:
>>
>>>On October 12, 2005 at 18:02:18, Sandro Necchi wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 12, 2005 at 14:46:57, Thomas Logan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 12, 2005 at 08:14:16, robert flesher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>It also lost against default 14-6, however I will give it a 100 game match to
>>>>>>make sure. Although it seems that this version is even more aggressive compared
>>>>>>to the defaul and this is exactly what Fruit 2.2 is exploiting.
>>>>>
>>>>>Shredder 9 uci ceg won the first game and is about to win - no has won the
>>>>>second
>>>>>
>>>>>[Event "THOMAS-KBZT8WLT, Blitz:40'"]
>>>>>[Site "THOMAS-KBZT8WLT"]
>>>>>[Date "2005.10.12"]
>>>>>[Round "1"]
>>>>>[White "Fruit 2.2"]
>>>>>[Black "Shredder 9 UCIC.E.G"]
>>>>>[Result "0-1"]
>>>>>[ECO "E81"]
>>>>>[Annotator "-0.01;0.35"]
>>>>>[PlyCount "84"]
>>>>>[TimeControl "2400"]
>>>>>
>>>>>{W=15.0 ply; 867kN/s B=16.3 ply; 565kN/s} 1. d4 {White last book move 0.01/1 0
>>>>>} Nf6 {0} 2. c4 {0.01/1 0} g6 {0} 3. Nc3 {0.01/1 0} Bg7 {0} 4. e4 {0.01/1 0} d6
>>>>>{0} 5. f3 {0.01/1 0} O-O {0} 6. Be3 {0.01/1 0} c5 {0} 7. dxc5 {0.01/1 0} dxc5 {
>>>>>0} 8. e5 {0.01/1 0} Nfd7 {0} 9. f4 {0.01/1 0} f6 {0} 10. exf6 {0.01/1 0} Rxf6 {
>>>>>Black last book move 0} 11. Nf3 {-0.01/14 100} Nc6 {0.35/14 74} 12. Be2 {
>>>>>(Qd5+) 0.00/14 85} Rd6 {0.16/15 56} 13. Qb3 {(Qc1) 0.14/15 87} Re6 {0.13/14 39}
>>>>>14. Nd5 {0.07/15 69} Nd4 {0.33/15 58} 15. Bxd4 {0.07/15 79} cxd4 {0.10/16 53}
>>>>>16. Ng5 {(Qa3) 0.12/15 122} Rxe2+ {(Ra6) 0.04/15 23} 17. Kxe2 {0.29/13 16} Nc5
>>>>>{-0.20/16 43} 18. Qa3 {-0.16/14 68} Qd6 {-0.15/15 61} 19. b4 {-0.33/13 62} Ne6
>>>>>{-0.37/14 46} 20. Kd2 {(Qf3) -0.41/13 62} Nxg5 {-0.83/15 76} 21. fxg5 {
>>>>>-0.36/13 38} b5 {-0.81/16 62} 22. Qf3 {(Rae1) -0.32/13 32} Bb7 {-0.69/15 70}
>>>>>23. Rhe1 {-1.09/13 34} Re8 {-0.80/14 58} 24. Qg3 {(Rf1) -1.17/14 56} e5 {
>>>>>-1.33/16 61} 25. Nf6+ {-1.36/15 51} Bxf6 {-1.56/17 52} 26. c5 {-1.42/15 57}
>>>>>Bxg5+ {-1.56/18 71} 27. Qxg5 {-1.43/15 46} Qe6 {-1.50/17 38} 28. Kd1 {
>>>>>-1.41/15 68} e4 {-2.13/16 41} 29. Qd2 {(Qf4) -1.49/14 25} Qd7 {-2.18/15 17} 30.
>>>>>a4 {(Kc1) -1.46/14 45} e3 {(bxa4) -3.02/16 56} 31. Qd3 {-1.95/14 26} bxa4 {
>>>>>-3.02/16 61} 32. Kc1 {-2.33/14 65} Bc6 {(Bxg2) -3.49/15 24} 33. Qc4+ {
>>>>>-2.33/14 33} Kh8 {(Bd5) -3.65/16 53} 34. Rd1 {(Kb2) -2.47/14 39} Re4 {
>>>>>(e2) -3.88/16 50} 35. Ra3 {-2.25/14 43} Kg7 {(e2) -3.93/15 38} 36. Qc2 {
>>>>>-2.07/14 29} Qd5 {(Qe7) -3.97/15 19} 37. h3 {(Kb2) -2.70/14 48} Bb5 {
>>>>>(e2) -5.20/13 11} 38. Qb2 {-3.62/13 31} Kg8 {-6.13/15 62} 39. c6 {-4.31/14 30}
>>>>>Qxc6+ {-8.02/15 46} 40. Qc2 {(Kb1) -4.93/16 42} Re6 {-8.87/14 25} 41. Qxc6 {
>>>>>(Qc5) -7.91/18 385} Rxc6+ {-9.04/21 60} 42. Kb2 {(Kb1) -8.07/18 14} e2 {
>>>>>adjud. -11.10/19 37} 0-1
>>>>>
>>>>>[Event "THOMAS-KBZT8WLT, Blitz:40'"]
>>>>>[Site "THOMAS-KBZT8WLT"]
>>>>>[Date "2005.10.12"]
>>>>>[Round "2"]
>>>>>[White "Shredder 9 UCIC.E.G"]
>>>>>[Black "Fruit 2.2"]
>>>>>[Result "1-0"]
>>>>>[ECO "B63"]
>>>>>[Annotator "-0.69;-0.26"]
>>>>>[PlyCount "140"]
>>>>>[TimeControl "2400"]
>>>>>
>>>>>{W=16.4 ply; 624kN/s; 28,907 TBAs B=15.4 ply; 1,048kN/s} 1. e4 {
>>>>>Black last book move 0} c5 {-0.01/1 0} 2. Nf3 {0} Nc6 {-0.01/1 0} 3. d4 {0}
>>>>>cxd4 {-0.01/1 0} 4. Nxd4 {0} Nf6 {-0.01/1 0} 5. Nc3 {0} d6 {-0.01/1 0} 6. Bg5 {
>>>>>0} e6 {-0.01/1 0} 7. Qd2 {0} Be7 {-0.01/1 0} 8. O-O-O {0} O-O {-0.01/1 0} 9.
>>>>>Nb3 {0} Qb6 {-0.01/1 0} 10. f3 {0} Rd8 {-0.01/1 0} 11. Be3 {0} Qc7 {-0.01/1 0}
>>>>>12. Qf2 {0} d5 {-0.01/1 0} 13. exd5 {0} Nxd5 {-0.01/1 0} 14. Nxd5 {0} Rxd5 {
>>>>>-0.01/1 0} 15. Rxd5 {0} exd5 {-0.01/1 0} 16. Bb5 {0} Bf5 {-0.26/15 142} 17.
>>>>>Bxc6 {0} bxc6 {-0.21/15 81} 18. Bc5 {White last book move 0} Bg5+ {-0.23/15 42}
>>>>>19. Be3 {-0.69/14 12} Bf6 {-0.20/16 46} 20. Bd4 {-0.61/15 47} Bxd4 {-0.10/16 67
>>>>>} 21. Qxd4 {(Nxd4) -0.49/16 27} Re8 {(f6) -0.18/15 102} 22. Qc3 {-0.49/16 52}
>>>>>h6 {(Bd7) -0.12/15 82} 23. g3 {0.00/18 73} Qb6 {(Qe7) -0.09/17 58} 24. Re1 {
>>>>>0.16/15 12} Rxe1+ {-0.04/16 66} 25. Qxe1 {0.25/17 26} Bg6 {(Bd7) -0.01/17 158}
>>>>>26. a4 {(Kb1) 0.36/18 60} Qa6 {-0.34/17 39} 27. a5 {0.12/19 62} Qc4 {
>>>>>(c5) -0.32/17 32} 28. Qf2 {0.25/18 24} h5 {(Bf5) -0.26/16 68} 29. h3 {
>>>>>(Kd1) 0.15/19 69} a6 {(Qa6) -0.11/15 53} 30. Kd1 {(g4) 0.43/20 88} Qb5 {
>>>>>(d4) -0.23/16 43} 31. Qe2 {(Kc1) 0.42/19 61} Qb8 {-0.21/15 25} 32. f4 {
>>>>>(Qf2) 0.42/19 81} h4 {(Qa7) -0.28/16 33} 33. gxh4 {(f5) -0.06/18 43} Qxf4 {
>>>>>-0.69/15 29} 34. h5 {-0.17/18 69} Bf5 {-0.68/15 39} 35. Qxa6 {-0.09/17 44} Bxh3
>>>>>{-0.67/12 27} 36. Qb6 {-0.04/16 58} Bg4+ {-0.37/12 34} 37. Ke1 {-0.04/10 0} Bf3
>>>>>{(Bxh5) -0.36/13 56} 38. a6 {-0.02/16 42} Qe5+ {(Qe4+) -0.48/15 32} 39. Kd2 {
>>>>>-0.01/18 42} Qe2+ {-0.46/15 23} 40. Kc3 {-0.01/18 52} Qc4+ {-0.42/15 35} 41.
>>>>>Kd2 {-0.02/10 0} c5 {-0.42/16 38} 42. Qxc5 {0.26/17 33} Qxa6 {-0.24/16 28} 43.
>>>>>Nd4 {0.18/16 29} Qh6+ {-0.23/15 35} 44. Kc3 {0.23/16 46} Qe3+ {-0.23/15 34} 45.
>>>>>Kb4 {0.23/10 0} Be4 {-0.11/15 18} 46. c3 {(Ka5) 0.05/15 38} Qd2 {
>>>>>(Qh6) -0.22/15 27} 47. b3 {0.08/17 63} Qg5 {-0.08/15 33} 48. Ka3 {
>>>>>(Ka5) 0.19/16 36} Qc1+ {-0.08/15 21} 49. Ka4 {0.19/16 13} Qa1+ {
>>>>>(Qd1) -0.07/16 26} 50. Kb4 {0.26/15 13} Qg1 {(Qa6) -0.02/15 28} 51. Qc7 {
>>>>>(Qc8+) 0.69/15 31} Qh1 {(Qa1) 0.00/15 17} 52. Ka5 {0.99/15 19} Qa1+ {
>>>>>(Bd3) 0.00/15 53} 53. Kb6 {1.17/15 15} Bd3 {0.00/15 24} 54. Nf3 {
>>>>>(Qc8+) 1.27/14 31} Qa6+ {0.03/13 44} 55. Kc5 {1.27/10 0} Qf6 {(f6) 0.10/14 35}
>>>>>56. Nd4 {1.55/15 19} Qg5 {(Be4) 0.15/14 17} 57. b4 {1.50/15 24} Qc1 {0.21/14 19
>>>>>} 58. Kxd5 {1.56/15 41} Qh1+ {0.26/13 10} 59. Kd6 {1.52/15 19} Qh2+ {0.45/14 32
>>>>>} 60. Kc6 {1.34/15 19} Be4+ {(Qxh5) 0.52/14 19} 61. Kb6 {2.25/16 23} Qxh5 {
>>>>>0.60/14 11} 62. c4 {(b5) 2.27/15 26} Qh6+ {0.59/12 13} 63. Ka7 {
>>>>>(Ka5) 2.50/15 17} Qe3 {(Qf6) 0.49/13 11} 64. Qd8+ {(Qd6) 2.79/15 17} Kh7 {
>>>>>0.29/4 0} 65. b5 {(Kb6) 3.05/16 19} Bg2 {(Bd3) 2.21/16 124} 66. c5 {4.98/16 52}
>>>>>Qe5 {(Qa3+) 2.44/15 30} 67. Qd6 {5.64/14 14} Qe3 {(Qe1) 2.70/15 10} 68. c6 {
>>>>>6.72/15 19} Qd2 {2.82/15 11} 69. Kb8 {7.46/14 6} Qa5 {(Qa2) 5.37/17 105} 70.
>>>>>Qh2+ {(Kb7) 8.81/15 35} Kg8 {adjud. 9.68/16 11} 1-0
>>>>>
>>>>>the difficulty with tweaking the setting is that you sometimes create a killer
>>>>>at one setting and weaken another
>>>>>
>>>>>or a great result against one engine and poorer results against another
>>>>
>>>>Tom,
>>>>
>>>>this is very true, but in the case of Columbus' egg 9g it won clearly against
>>>>Fruit 2.1, Junior 9 and Fritz 8 Bilbao showing better performance than S9. It is
>>>>not able to do the same against S9, but ahead of 2 points after 50 games, so not
>>>>worst either...
>>>>
>>>>It seems it is not so good at fast games/blitz games as reported by some people
>>>>here in CCC, so maybe it is getting better at longer/long controls...
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Tom
>>>>
>>>>Sandro
>>>
>>>Hi Sandro
>>>
>>>Any idea about when Shredder 10 will hit the market
>>>
>>>I am hoping to see Shredder in the number 1 spot - both cegt and ssds
>>>
>>>Tom
>>
>>
>>I doubt if stefan can get it.
>>At the time of releasing shredder10 there is going to be also a newer version of
>>Fruit.
>>
>>Uri
> What do you think the difference will be in strength from the previous vesions
>and why?
I think that there is going to be a big improvement in fruit in the next year.
My guess is that there is going to be improvement of more than 100 elo in the
next year.
The difference will be both because of better evaluation and because of better
search(Fabien told me that he plans to improve the evaluation first).
I know that some standard tricks that are used by other top chess programs are
not used by Fruit.
Examples:
1)Fruit has no fail high like other programs and it always search for exact
score.
There are cases when it needs a lot of time to find a move only because it
cannot find exact score for it in a short time when other programs may find
exact score for it in a short time.
I think that this is clearly a handicap for fruit and I believe that there are
cases when it get stuck in searching a specific move without playing it.
As an example you can see the following post of me
http://wbforum.volker-pittlik.name/viewtopic.php?t=3589
Fruit get stuck with Kh6 but cannot choose it in a reasonable time
If it gets that position in a game it may not choose it not because it cannot
find that the move is interesting but because it stuck with it's desire to find
an exact score.
2)Fruit has no partial extensions and extend every single reply by 1 ply and
every check by 1 ply.
The result is that it can solve the famous mate in 30 at depth 1 but I am sure
that the result may be bad in other cases and fruit may not be able to go deep
in important lines because of extending too much.
Uri
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