Author: chandler yergin
Date: 15:31:01 10/14/05
Go up one level in this thread
On October 13, 2005 at 16:04:10, Uri Blass wrote:
>On October 13, 2005 at 15:15:46, chandler yergin wrote:
>
>>On October 12, 2005 at 19:17:14, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On October 12, 2005 at 18:38:35, Thomas Logan wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 12, 2005 at 18:02:18, Sandro Necchi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 12, 2005 at 14:46:57, Thomas Logan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On October 12, 2005 at 08:14:16, robert flesher wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It also lost against default 14-6, however I will give it a 100 game match to
>>>>>>>make sure. Although it seems that this version is even more aggressive compared
>>>>>>>to the defaul and this is exactly what Fruit 2.2 is exploiting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Shredder 9 uci ceg won the first game and is about to win - no has won the
>>>>>>second
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[Event "THOMAS-KBZT8WLT, Blitz:40'"]
>>>>>>[Site "THOMAS-KBZT8WLT"]
>>>>>>[Date "2005.10.12"]
>>>>>>[Round "1"]
>>>>>>[White "Fruit 2.2"]
>>>>>>[Black "Shredder 9 UCIC.E.G"]
>>>>>>[Result "0-1"]
>>>>>>[ECO "E81"]
>>>>>>[Annotator "-0.01;0.35"]
>>>>>>[PlyCount "84"]
>>>>>>[TimeControl "2400"]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>{W=15.0 ply; 867kN/s B=16.3 ply; 565kN/s} 1. d4 {White last book move 0.01/1 0
>>>>>>} Nf6 {0} 2. c4 {0.01/1 0} g6 {0} 3. Nc3 {0.01/1 0} Bg7 {0} 4. e4 {0.01/1 0} d6
>>>>>>{0} 5. f3 {0.01/1 0} O-O {0} 6. Be3 {0.01/1 0} c5 {0} 7. dxc5 {0.01/1 0} dxc5 {
>>>>>>0} 8. e5 {0.01/1 0} Nfd7 {0} 9. f4 {0.01/1 0} f6 {0} 10. exf6 {0.01/1 0} Rxf6 {
>>>>>>Black last book move 0} 11. Nf3 {-0.01/14 100} Nc6 {0.35/14 74} 12. Be2 {
>>>>>>(Qd5+) 0.00/14 85} Rd6 {0.16/15 56} 13. Qb3 {(Qc1) 0.14/15 87} Re6 {0.13/14 39}
>>>>>>14. Nd5 {0.07/15 69} Nd4 {0.33/15 58} 15. Bxd4 {0.07/15 79} cxd4 {0.10/16 53}
>>>>>>16. Ng5 {(Qa3) 0.12/15 122} Rxe2+ {(Ra6) 0.04/15 23} 17. Kxe2 {0.29/13 16} Nc5
>>>>>>{-0.20/16 43} 18. Qa3 {-0.16/14 68} Qd6 {-0.15/15 61} 19. b4 {-0.33/13 62} Ne6
>>>>>>{-0.37/14 46} 20. Kd2 {(Qf3) -0.41/13 62} Nxg5 {-0.83/15 76} 21. fxg5 {
>>>>>>-0.36/13 38} b5 {-0.81/16 62} 22. Qf3 {(Rae1) -0.32/13 32} Bb7 {-0.69/15 70}
>>>>>>23. Rhe1 {-1.09/13 34} Re8 {-0.80/14 58} 24. Qg3 {(Rf1) -1.17/14 56} e5 {
>>>>>>-1.33/16 61} 25. Nf6+ {-1.36/15 51} Bxf6 {-1.56/17 52} 26. c5 {-1.42/15 57}
>>>>>>Bxg5+ {-1.56/18 71} 27. Qxg5 {-1.43/15 46} Qe6 {-1.50/17 38} 28. Kd1 {
>>>>>>-1.41/15 68} e4 {-2.13/16 41} 29. Qd2 {(Qf4) -1.49/14 25} Qd7 {-2.18/15 17} 30.
>>>>>>a4 {(Kc1) -1.46/14 45} e3 {(bxa4) -3.02/16 56} 31. Qd3 {-1.95/14 26} bxa4 {
>>>>>>-3.02/16 61} 32. Kc1 {-2.33/14 65} Bc6 {(Bxg2) -3.49/15 24} 33. Qc4+ {
>>>>>>-2.33/14 33} Kh8 {(Bd5) -3.65/16 53} 34. Rd1 {(Kb2) -2.47/14 39} Re4 {
>>>>>>(e2) -3.88/16 50} 35. Ra3 {-2.25/14 43} Kg7 {(e2) -3.93/15 38} 36. Qc2 {
>>>>>>-2.07/14 29} Qd5 {(Qe7) -3.97/15 19} 37. h3 {(Kb2) -2.70/14 48} Bb5 {
>>>>>>(e2) -5.20/13 11} 38. Qb2 {-3.62/13 31} Kg8 {-6.13/15 62} 39. c6 {-4.31/14 30}
>>>>>>Qxc6+ {-8.02/15 46} 40. Qc2 {(Kb1) -4.93/16 42} Re6 {-8.87/14 25} 41. Qxc6 {
>>>>>>(Qc5) -7.91/18 385} Rxc6+ {-9.04/21 60} 42. Kb2 {(Kb1) -8.07/18 14} e2 {
>>>>>>adjud. -11.10/19 37} 0-1
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[Event "THOMAS-KBZT8WLT, Blitz:40'"]
>>>>>>[Site "THOMAS-KBZT8WLT"]
>>>>>>[Date "2005.10.12"]
>>>>>>[Round "2"]
>>>>>>[White "Shredder 9 UCIC.E.G"]
>>>>>>[Black "Fruit 2.2"]
>>>>>>[Result "1-0"]
>>>>>>[ECO "B63"]
>>>>>>[Annotator "-0.69;-0.26"]
>>>>>>[PlyCount "140"]
>>>>>>[TimeControl "2400"]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>{W=16.4 ply; 624kN/s; 28,907 TBAs B=15.4 ply; 1,048kN/s} 1. e4 {
>>>>>>Black last book move 0} c5 {-0.01/1 0} 2. Nf3 {0} Nc6 {-0.01/1 0} 3. d4 {0}
>>>>>>cxd4 {-0.01/1 0} 4. Nxd4 {0} Nf6 {-0.01/1 0} 5. Nc3 {0} d6 {-0.01/1 0} 6. Bg5 {
>>>>>>0} e6 {-0.01/1 0} 7. Qd2 {0} Be7 {-0.01/1 0} 8. O-O-O {0} O-O {-0.01/1 0} 9.
>>>>>>Nb3 {0} Qb6 {-0.01/1 0} 10. f3 {0} Rd8 {-0.01/1 0} 11. Be3 {0} Qc7 {-0.01/1 0}
>>>>>>12. Qf2 {0} d5 {-0.01/1 0} 13. exd5 {0} Nxd5 {-0.01/1 0} 14. Nxd5 {0} Rxd5 {
>>>>>>-0.01/1 0} 15. Rxd5 {0} exd5 {-0.01/1 0} 16. Bb5 {0} Bf5 {-0.26/15 142} 17.
>>>>>>Bxc6 {0} bxc6 {-0.21/15 81} 18. Bc5 {White last book move 0} Bg5+ {-0.23/15 42}
>>>>>>19. Be3 {-0.69/14 12} Bf6 {-0.20/16 46} 20. Bd4 {-0.61/15 47} Bxd4 {-0.10/16 67
>>>>>>} 21. Qxd4 {(Nxd4) -0.49/16 27} Re8 {(f6) -0.18/15 102} 22. Qc3 {-0.49/16 52}
>>>>>>h6 {(Bd7) -0.12/15 82} 23. g3 {0.00/18 73} Qb6 {(Qe7) -0.09/17 58} 24. Re1 {
>>>>>>0.16/15 12} Rxe1+ {-0.04/16 66} 25. Qxe1 {0.25/17 26} Bg6 {(Bd7) -0.01/17 158}
>>>>>>26. a4 {(Kb1) 0.36/18 60} Qa6 {-0.34/17 39} 27. a5 {0.12/19 62} Qc4 {
>>>>>>(c5) -0.32/17 32} 28. Qf2 {0.25/18 24} h5 {(Bf5) -0.26/16 68} 29. h3 {
>>>>>>(Kd1) 0.15/19 69} a6 {(Qa6) -0.11/15 53} 30. Kd1 {(g4) 0.43/20 88} Qb5 {
>>>>>>(d4) -0.23/16 43} 31. Qe2 {(Kc1) 0.42/19 61} Qb8 {-0.21/15 25} 32. f4 {
>>>>>>(Qf2) 0.42/19 81} h4 {(Qa7) -0.28/16 33} 33. gxh4 {(f5) -0.06/18 43} Qxf4 {
>>>>>>-0.69/15 29} 34. h5 {-0.17/18 69} Bf5 {-0.68/15 39} 35. Qxa6 {-0.09/17 44} Bxh3
>>>>>>{-0.67/12 27} 36. Qb6 {-0.04/16 58} Bg4+ {-0.37/12 34} 37. Ke1 {-0.04/10 0} Bf3
>>>>>>{(Bxh5) -0.36/13 56} 38. a6 {-0.02/16 42} Qe5+ {(Qe4+) -0.48/15 32} 39. Kd2 {
>>>>>>-0.01/18 42} Qe2+ {-0.46/15 23} 40. Kc3 {-0.01/18 52} Qc4+ {-0.42/15 35} 41.
>>>>>>Kd2 {-0.02/10 0} c5 {-0.42/16 38} 42. Qxc5 {0.26/17 33} Qxa6 {-0.24/16 28} 43.
>>>>>>Nd4 {0.18/16 29} Qh6+ {-0.23/15 35} 44. Kc3 {0.23/16 46} Qe3+ {-0.23/15 34} 45.
>>>>>>Kb4 {0.23/10 0} Be4 {-0.11/15 18} 46. c3 {(Ka5) 0.05/15 38} Qd2 {
>>>>>>(Qh6) -0.22/15 27} 47. b3 {0.08/17 63} Qg5 {-0.08/15 33} 48. Ka3 {
>>>>>>(Ka5) 0.19/16 36} Qc1+ {-0.08/15 21} 49. Ka4 {0.19/16 13} Qa1+ {
>>>>>>(Qd1) -0.07/16 26} 50. Kb4 {0.26/15 13} Qg1 {(Qa6) -0.02/15 28} 51. Qc7 {
>>>>>>(Qc8+) 0.69/15 31} Qh1 {(Qa1) 0.00/15 17} 52. Ka5 {0.99/15 19} Qa1+ {
>>>>>>(Bd3) 0.00/15 53} 53. Kb6 {1.17/15 15} Bd3 {0.00/15 24} 54. Nf3 {
>>>>>>(Qc8+) 1.27/14 31} Qa6+ {0.03/13 44} 55. Kc5 {1.27/10 0} Qf6 {(f6) 0.10/14 35}
>>>>>>56. Nd4 {1.55/15 19} Qg5 {(Be4) 0.15/14 17} 57. b4 {1.50/15 24} Qc1 {0.21/14 19
>>>>>>} 58. Kxd5 {1.56/15 41} Qh1+ {0.26/13 10} 59. Kd6 {1.52/15 19} Qh2+ {0.45/14 32
>>>>>>} 60. Kc6 {1.34/15 19} Be4+ {(Qxh5) 0.52/14 19} 61. Kb6 {2.25/16 23} Qxh5 {
>>>>>>0.60/14 11} 62. c4 {(b5) 2.27/15 26} Qh6+ {0.59/12 13} 63. Ka7 {
>>>>>>(Ka5) 2.50/15 17} Qe3 {(Qf6) 0.49/13 11} 64. Qd8+ {(Qd6) 2.79/15 17} Kh7 {
>>>>>>0.29/4 0} 65. b5 {(Kb6) 3.05/16 19} Bg2 {(Bd3) 2.21/16 124} 66. c5 {4.98/16 52}
>>>>>>Qe5 {(Qa3+) 2.44/15 30} 67. Qd6 {5.64/14 14} Qe3 {(Qe1) 2.70/15 10} 68. c6 {
>>>>>>6.72/15 19} Qd2 {2.82/15 11} 69. Kb8 {7.46/14 6} Qa5 {(Qa2) 5.37/17 105} 70.
>>>>>>Qh2+ {(Kb7) 8.81/15 35} Kg8 {adjud. 9.68/16 11} 1-0
>>>>>>
>>>>>>the difficulty with tweaking the setting is that you sometimes create a killer
>>>>>>at one setting and weaken another
>>>>>>
>>>>>>or a great result against one engine and poorer results against another
>>>>>
>>>>>Tom,
>>>>>
>>>>>this is very true, but in the case of Columbus' egg 9g it won clearly against
>>>>>Fruit 2.1, Junior 9 and Fritz 8 Bilbao showing better performance than S9. It is
>>>>>not able to do the same against S9, but ahead of 2 points after 50 games, so not
>>>>>worst either...
>>>>>
>>>>>It seems it is not so good at fast games/blitz games as reported by some people
>>>>>here in CCC, so maybe it is getting better at longer/long controls...
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tom
>>>>>
>>>>>Sandro
>>>>
>>>>Hi Sandro
>>>>
>>>>Any idea about when Shredder 10 will hit the market
>>>>
>>>>I am hoping to see Shredder in the number 1 spot - both cegt and ssds
>>>>
>>>>Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>I doubt if stefan can get it.
>>>At the time of releasing shredder10 there is going to be also a newer version of
>>>Fruit.
>>>
>>>Uri
>> What do you think the difference will be in strength from the previous vesions
>>and why?
>
>I think that there is going to be a big improvement in fruit in the next year.
>My guess is that there is going to be improvement of more than 100 elo in the
>next year.
>
>The difference will be both because of better evaluation and because of better
>search(Fabien told me that he plans to improve the evaluation first).
>
>I know that some standard tricks that are used by other top chess programs are
>not used by Fruit.
>
>Examples:
>
>1)Fruit has no fail high like other programs and it always search for exact
>score.
>
>There are cases when it needs a lot of time to find a move only because it
>cannot find exact score for it in a short time when other programs may find
>exact score for it in a short time.
>
>I think that this is clearly a handicap for fruit and I believe that there are
>cases when it get stuck in searching a specific move without playing it.
>
>As an example you can see the following post of me
>http://wbforum.volker-pittlik.name/viewtopic.php?t=3589
>
>Fruit get stuck with Kh6 but cannot choose it in a reasonable time
>If it gets that position in a game it may not choose it not because it cannot
>find that the move is interesting but because it stuck with it's desire to find
>an exact score.
>
>2)Fruit has no partial extensions and extend every single reply by 1 ply and
>every check by 1 ply.
>
>The result is that it can solve the famous mate in 30 at depth 1 but I am sure
>that the result may be bad in other cases and fruit may not be able to go deep
>in important lines because of extending too much.
>
>Uri
Thank you.. The time allocation software could be a problem?
In other words it forces a move & of course it may not be the best..
but the best one at the time it has when it must move.
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