Author: Drexel,Michael
Date: 05:13:18 11/12/05
Go up one level in this thread
On November 12, 2005 at 07:20:35, Uri Blass wrote: >On November 12, 2005 at 07:08:28, Drexel,Michael wrote: > >>On November 12, 2005 at 06:48:06, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >> >>>On November 12, 2005 at 06:43:52, Drexel,Michael wrote: >>> >>>>On November 12, 2005 at 06:27:24, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 12, 2005 at 06:17:10, Drexel,Michael wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On November 12, 2005 at 03:59:54, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>In the running Open Dutch Computerchess Championship >>>>>>>it was the program "Usurpator" to choose with White >>>>>>>twice the queen move Qh5 in the second move. Of course, >>>>>>>both games endet with a disaster. What the hell is the >>>>>>>idea of the programmer to choose such a bad opening line? >>>>>>>Kurt >>>>>> >>>>>>Both games ended in a disaster because Ursupator is a very weak program. >>>>>> >>>>>>I´m sure this would be a great opening move to play against all engines because >>>>>>you quickly get them out of book and the chances to get some nonsense moves are >>>>>>very high. >>>>>> >>>>>>Michael >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Michael >>>>> I very much doubt ... you can say what you want, >>>>> but an opening where Black is slightly better >>>>> after the second move should be avoided at any >>>>> cost ... at least in matches between computer >>>>> programs. >>>>> Regards >>>>> Kurt >>>> >>>>Nope, this should only be avoided if you don´t have some further book moves. >>>>Why do you think people on the chess servers are sucessful with Nonsense >>>>openings like 1.d4 d5 2.h4, 1.d4 d5 2.a4, 1.b3 d5 2.Ba3 etc? >>>> >>>>Michael >>> >>> Those who are accustomed with such nonsense openings >>> have the advantage to surprise their opponents but >>> this does not count vs a computer program. >> >>This would be a pleasant surprise. >>Such openings are pointless against humans. >>I´m talking about computer vs. computer only. > >What humans know that computers do not know? IMO _strong_ humans are better than computers in the opening, computers are generally pretty clueless. Some engines are better than other engines, they all are relatively weak compared to a 2700 player. >Humans are not better than computers in FRC so the assumption that humans are >better than computers in finding moves in unknown positions is wrong Your logic is flawed. FRC is _not_ chess without book. Much of the knowledege a player has about opening strategy is not applicable. Let´s take this start position: [D]rnbqkbnr/1ppppppp/p7/8/8/P7/1PPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 2 I say _strong_ humans would find better moves on average than strong programs here. so if the >opening is good against computers because computers blunder after 2.Qh5 with >black then I see no reason to think that humans are not going to blunder after >the same move. The discussion is not about humans anyway. Michael >Uri
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