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Subject: Re: comp vs comp or comp vs human ... but why not comp vs cc players?

Author: blass uri

Date: 07:34:44 04/28/99

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On April 28, 1999 at 06:47:39, Harald Faber wrote:


>>There can be a tactical hole that the programs need hours to see and  the human
>>may miss it if (s)he prefers to check with the computer many positions and
>>cannot concentrate with it only at the root of the tree.
>>
>>Junior4.6 won a correspondence game in the 1/2 final of the correspondence
>>championship of Israel because of a tactical mistake of the opponent that
>>computers needs a long time to avoid.
>>
>>The opponent told me that he used a computer to help him.
>>
>>The opponent is not a  weak correspondence player.
>>He is playing in the final of a previous correspondence championship of Israel
>>
>>Uri
>
>I guess he didn't use the program in an ideal way. To check with computers I
>meant to check your favourite lines. Because of horizon and other effects
>programs don't find (or need a very long time) deeper tactical solutions. But if
>you play [through] your favourite and main lines things suddenly may change.
>Especially Genius often needs only one ply to find the idea. That means he may
>be at depth 11/23 and sees nothing, if you make the best move, suddenly and MUCH
>earlier than in depth 11/23 you see fail low/fail high in Genius analysis. These
>things are very dangerous!

Here is the position that my opponent did the losing mistake:
r4rk1/2p3pp/p7/1p1pq3/8/2P2N2/PPQ2KPP/R1B5 w - - 0 1

(Dark thought is the best program that I know for this position.
It found not to play Kg1 in 37 seconds).

My opponent played Kg1 and lost after Rxf3 gxf3 Qe1+ Kg2 Re8 Kh3 Re5

I showed this position to some humans and it is not easy to understand what is
the threat after Re5.

The threat is to play Qg1 with the idea Qg2 Rh5+ Kg3 Qe1+
The main problem for part of the humans to see it is that they do not consider
Qe1+ because they think that this move is losing a tempo
Qe1 goto g1 and after it back to e1.


I also think that a computer may sometimes find  better positional moves than
the cc player.

Sometimes humans have wrong opinions about moves.

Uri



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