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Subject: Re: Mathematical wow!!!

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 14:37:58 05/21/99

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On May 21, 1999 at 17:22:50, José de Jesús García Ruvalcaba wrote:

>On May 21, 1999 at 16:03:17, Dann Corbit wrote:
>
>>On May 21, 1999 at 15:58:32, Tim Mirabile wrote:
>>>On May 20, 1999 at 15:24:36, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>
>>>>Which brings up another fascinating idea.  If we can come up with a minimal
>>>>encoding, we can bound the maximum possible number of chess positions.  If the
>>>>claim that all positions can be encoded in 100 bits is true, then there are
>>>>"only" about 1e30 board positions!!  Several orders of magnitude below any limit
>>>>claimed that I know of.  After all, if the mapping really is invertible, we will
>>>>have a one to one and onto map from a 100 bit binary number to all possible
>>>>board positions!
>>>
>>>A while ago I posted to RGCC about a dozen things to consider when trying to
>>>decide if a certain random position of pieces/pawns/promoted pawns is legal.
>>>I'll try to dig it up when I get home.  But many of these deal with such
>>>specific cases its hard to imagine an encoding scheme which can catch them all.
>>>And some positions could only be tested by doing a retrograde analysis back to
>>>the opening position; I don't see any way to catch those.
>>These sort of checks *reduce* the number of legal positions.  Any check like
>>this will lower the estimate when applied.  If we can find an encoding scheme
>>that will cover any contingency (including 'legal positions only' as a subset)
>>then that number of bits will record them all.  Perhaps less bits are needed,
>>but as long as we have a ceiling, we can say that the number of possible moves
>>is no more than "x" and possibly much less.
>
>	Is the discussion about posible moves or about posible positions?
The focus (at least my focus) is to find a ceiling for the count of board
positions.  If we can prove that a particular minimal encoding can reversibly
describe every board position, then two raised to the exponent of  the count in
bits of that coding will give is a hard limit for the most possible board
positions.
The estimates I have seen vary wildly from 10^120 on down.  I have never seen
any sensible proof of any hard limit before.



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