Author: KarinsDad
Date: 09:03:28 06/10/99
Go up one level in this thread
On June 09, 1999 at 19:24:15, Peter Kappler wrote: >On June 09, 1999 at 16:10:36, KarinsDad wrote: > >>I also predict that if a program ever does solve the game (an extremely unlikely >>occurance even assuming the most theoretical of computation possibilities), that >>white has a forced win. The reason: White has the first move and Black will >>always be playing catchup (in a perfect game). >> >>KarinsDad :) > > >I recently attended a talk given by Kasparov at Stanford University, where he >addressed this very question. > >His answer was something along the lines of "There is no question that chess is >a draw, assuming best play by both sides." > >If Kasparov feels that strongly about this, then it is almost pointless for us >"mortals" to debate it further, as Garry's opinion is probably as close the to >the truth as we can get... > > >--Peter Many powerful GMs have spent many hours analyzing endgames and have said that a given position was a win. When tablebases came out, it was suddenly shown that the position was a draw or a loss. GMs (including Garry) are not infallible. Nor is there absolute knowledge in the field of chess. Experts used to think that the world was flat. Experts used to think that you could predict the future with chicken entrails. Experts used to think (and some still do) that a big bang occurred. Garry may be correct. He may also be incorrect. There is no way to know. But unless Garry can come up with some supporting evidence, his opinion is no better than anyone else's on a game as complex as chess (remember, that the "experts" said that you would fall off the edge of the world if you sailed too far). There is just not enough information to have any more than an opinion. The order of magnitude difference between the number of positions checked so far in 3, 4, 5, and 6 piece tablebases and the number of positions in a comprehensive 32 piece tablebase is beyond human comprehension. If GMs can be incorrect on 4 piece positions, what is to say that they would not also be incorrect on the 32 piece starting position? The game is just TOO complex to know with any certainty. Garry may be correct that with best play on both sides, that a draw must occur. However, it could just be that the small advantage that white has of getting the first move will take 270 moves to be realized in a game with best play by both sides (or, to keep Dann happy, it takes 270 moves to put White in zugzwang). However, such an obscure advantage would be impossible to detect, even by someone of Kasparov's ability. Garry may think that the game is a draw with best play just because he cannot see the 539 ply way to win. We will never know. KarinsDad :)
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.