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Subject: Re: Deep Blue Junior at WCCC?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 07:41:50 06/19/99

Go up one level in this thread


On June 19, 1999 at 01:35:38, Micheal Cummings wrote:

>
>On June 19, 1999 at 00:20:02, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On June 18, 1999 at 20:35:39, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>>
>>>On June 18, 1999 at 20:16:44, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 18, 1999 at 18:31:05, Roger D Davis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I found this message on the Rebel Site where the events of round six were
>>>>>reported:
>>>>>
>>>>>Ed and I took the opportunity to play some 10 minute blitz games against Deep
>>>>>Blue Junior. Amazingly Rebel crushed the IBM supermonster with 3-0! Deep Blue
>>>>>Junior had no chance in these games, so one can have his doubts about the
>>>>>playing strength of this machine.
>>>>>
>>>>>I haven't seen anyone else mention Deep Blue Junior.
>>>>>
>>>>>Roger
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ed didn't tell "the rest of the story" so I will...
>>>>
>>>>I ask Hsu about this 'machine' a few weeks back, and here is what he told me
>>>>about it:
>>>>
>>>>Some internal IBM folks asked him to develop a 'demo' facility to show off DB.
>>>>He elected to do a web-based interface, which is "stateless" if you know what
>>>>this is all about.  In essence, this machine won't play a "game" at all, it
>>>>simply takes a position, searches it for 1 second (which includes mostly the
>>>>time needed to download the chess processors with the state information) and
>>>>then it produces a move.  No repetition testing at all, no game history, no
>>>>nothing except for a near-instant search.  However, it can take quite a while
>>>>to make a move because _many_ web browsers get pointed at this thing by the
>>>>IBM guys doing demos...
>>>>
>>>>Hsu estimated that it might play at 2200 or so.  Which was all that was needed
>>>>for the demonstrations it is used for.  It is _not_ "deep blue junior" by any
>>>>measure you would care to name.
>>>>
>>>>And putting such nonsense on Ed's web page is _highly_ misleading.
>>>>
>>>>To say the least.
>>>>
>>>>Bob
>>>
>>>It's a bit hard to fault people who might not be aware of the complete details
>>>of the setup.
>>>
>>>Dave
>>
>>
>>I don't believe this has been a secret.  I certainly have mentioned this more
>>than once the past month...  And they could always "ask" what it was they were
>>playing against before reporting it?
>
>If this is the case, why bother having it there. A demo should be a demostration
>of a program with a few limitations, seems to me this was just a program hacked
>up in a sloppy manner and put their for its name.


I wouldn't call it 'sloppy' at all, just 'different'.  A stateless web-based
approach to chess by definition has difficulties with a game.  I think that
Hsu originally wrote this kludged-up thing to play against humans.  As I said,
he estimated maybe 2200 or so if the opponent is not taking a long time to
move.  No thinking on the opponent's time.  No repetitions.  No hashing carried
over from move to move.  < 1 second of computation time per move.  etc...



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