Author: odell hall
Date: 15:22:45 09/19/99
Go up one level in this thread
On September 19, 1999 at 07:44:08, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >On September 18, 1999 at 17:42:11, Stephen A. Boak wrote: > >>I am setting up an Excel file to track the Rebel Performance Rating for games at >>tournament time control, 40 moves / 2 hrs. >> >>Does anyone have the actual FIDE ratings of Rebel opponents at time of the >>matches for: >> Anand (July '98) >> Rohde >> Sorin >> Hoffman >> >>I have the ratings from the team match today. >> >>Thanks, >> --Steve Boak On September 19, 1999 at 09:37:36, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >On September 18, 1999 at 17:44:11, Stephen A. Boak wrote: > >>By the way, the Rebel Century Performance Rating for the match today was: >> >> 2553 << >>which is certainly in the range of Grandmaster ratings. > >Rebel's TPR so far is roughly 2480, which is not GM level. Ten games are not >enough to know much, but taking into consideration that Rebel is the program >that scored the best in Aegon over the years, this tpr seems to indicate that >programs do not reach GM level yet at slow time controls and against motivated >GMs. One more thing: considering that Rebel played these games with a hardware >much faster than a P200MMX, it seems clear that the SSDF list is quite inflated, >maybe by some 150 points. > >I think that someone has been saying all this for years. Hi Bob! :) > >Looking at the few 40/2 games played so far by programs against strong human >opponents, I wonder if results wouldn't be similar if played against 2300 >people. The positional superiority of a 2300 player is still immense, and for >them it might be a matter of avoiding tactics, as wise IMs and GMs do when >playing computer programs. Maybe the Elo system works differently for programs? > >Aside form this, I don't think it makes sense to use the same opening book in >comp-comp and in human-comp games. It is quite absurd to play openings that lead >to positional games, where programs are quite dumb, and this is happening too >often. Is it not a better idea to build a gambit-like book that tries to open >the game and play tactics? Same for playing style. A program can afford to play >the Orthodox against another program, because neither will understand a thing, >but against a strong human player it's a mistake. Look, for instance, at Rebel-2 >yesterday. > >Enrique Personally, I think everyone is "pulling the Trigger" alittle to fast on this GM Question. (I hope I am not offending anyone with my "Pulling the Trigger statement) I think there are way to few games to jump to such Extravagant conclusions.(I mean with the rebel GM challenge). Can We truthfully believe that based on ten games, the whole grandmaster question is settled? Remember the 2480 number is including the loss to hoffman, which has been shown to be "suspect". Another Valid Question to consider is "Is it Fair or reasonable to suggest that because one program achieved a certain ratings then they all would achieve the Same? We are all willing to acknowledge that Programs all have different styles of play, would it be unreasonable to expect that they would also have different results? The Diversity in style between programs is as great as the diversity of play in humans. Would anyone ever suggest that because "john doe" losses to X, then all humans would lose to X? I think overall everyone is dissapointed in Rebel's performance, expecting rebel to have some win's against the GM's. (myself included) Our "expectations" not being met we tend to Exaggerate the significance of the results. As Dr Hyatt pointed out "2480" elo pointed out is very close To GM. Apparently not even Dr. Hyatt has ruled out the possibility that rebel will ultimately achieve it's goal. Personally I don't agree with the whole format for determining GM strength for Computers, When did we take a vote and decide that only Rebel's results would determine for all computers whatever the GM Question is Answered? Why not take the Collective results of "All" the programs as a whole? This 2480 is only meaningful if you decide to conviently exclude all the other results of computers against GM's. > >This is what I have: > >Player Elo Rebel score > >Sorin 2524 0,5 >Rodhe 2585 0 >Rodhe 2585 0,5 >Hofman 2501 0 >Anand 2795 0,5 >Anand 2795 0 >Ruzele 2515 0,5 >Krivonosov 2432 0,5 >Zapolskis 2399 1 >Grabliauskas 2466 0,5 > >Average Elo 2560 > >Rebel TPR 2480 > >Enrique
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