Author: Mark Young
Date: 16:12:42 09/25/99
Go up one level in this thread
On September 25, 1999 at 18:44:17, Peter McKenzie wrote: >In a game on ICC Beadle (LambChop) reached the following interesting position: > >2kr1b1r/ppp4p/1q4p1/3p1p1b/3N4/2PQPPP1/PP1N2P1/R4RK1 w - - 0 17 > >Tactics: > >Here LambChop blundered with Nxf5, it needs an 8 ply search to avoid Nxf5. The >key variation being Nxf5 gxf5 Qxf5+ Kb8 Qxh5 Qxe3+ Rf2 Bc5 Rf1 Qxd2. This is a >10 ply variation, but we have a couple of checks in there so the check extension >sallows it to be seen in 8 ply. > >My q-srch prunes out captures that look bad, so Qxd2 is pruned as the simple >algorithm I use thinks d2 is protected by the R on f2 :-( I guess if my pruning >algorithm in q-srch was smarter then I'd see this line one ply earlier. I'd >also see it earlier if I just looked at all captures in q-srch... > >How many ply do other programs need to avoid Nxf5 ? I know that crafty needs 8 >ply too... > > >Positional: > >I was slightly surprised when Bob Hyatt said he thought white was doing badly >anyway (crafty agreed). I personally think that white is doing fine, I actually >prefer white's position. > >Here is how I see the position: >White has 2 knights vs two bishops, so white should try to keep the position >somewhat closed. Currently the knights are quite well posted, while the Bh5 is >quite bad although the Bf8 is potentially very good but currently not doing >much. > >White's pawn structure is weakened, but black isn't currently in a position to >take advantage of this. White will probably play f4 eventually, leaving holes >on e4 and g4 but this doesn't look too bad for white as black doesn't have a >knight to sink in there. Also, the white knights cover those squares quite >well, and after f4 the Bh5 is really locked out. > >White has a clear and simple plan of advancing on the queenside. I think black >should try to open the position and infiltrate the dark squares, but its not >clear to me how to achieve this. > >I think white should play 1.b4 which is in harmony with the plan of advancing on >the queenside, it also dissuades c5 (thereby keeping the strong knight on d4) >and has the added bonus of possibly threatening Nxf5. I wouldn't worry about >Nxf5 too much though, as even if it wins a pawn the variations look very open >and dangerous for white. > >After 1.b4, ...c5 looks poor. Simply 2.bxc5 followed by 3.Rab1 with good >initiative for white. > >Another line is 1.b4 Bd6 2.f4 Rhe8 3.a4 threatening a5 Qa6 b5 trapping the black >queen :-) > >Maybe something like Qf6 is best for black? The idea being to play g5 >eventually. Pretty slow though. > >So there you have it, the opinion of someone used to be 2300 Fide but these days >struggles to maintain a 2000 ICC bullet rating :-) > >LambChop gives white as +0.4 after 9ply, and wants to play a4. > >So what do other people/programs think? > >cheers, >Peter New position 2kr1b1r/ppp4p/1q4p1/3p1p1b/3N4/2PQPPP1/PP1N2P1/R4RK1 w - - 0 1 Analysis by Hiarcs 7.32: 1.b4 = (0.05) depth: 1 00:00:00 1.b4 Bh6 ³ (-0.33) depth: 2/4 00:00:00 1.b4 Bh6 ³ (-0.33) depth: 2/13 00:00:00 1.N2b3 Kb8 = (0.00) depth: 2/13 00:00:00 1.N2b3 Kb8 2.Rad1 = (-0.10) depth: 3/13 00:00:00 1.Nxf5 Qxb2 2.Rfb1 = (-0.02) depth: 3/13 00:00:00 1.Nxf5 Qxb2 2.Rfb1 Qa3 = (-0.02) depth: 4/14 00:00:00 1.Nxf5 Qxb2 2.Rfb1 Qa3 3.g4 gxf5 4.gxh5 Bg7 5.Qxf5+ Kb8 = (0.08) depth: 5/19 00:00:00 12kN 1.Nxf5 gxf5 = (-0.19) depth: 6/21 00:00:01 44kN 1.Nxf5 gxf5 2.Qxf5+ Kb8 3.Qxh5 Qxe3+ 4.Kh2 Qxd2 -+ (-2.75) depth: 6/23 00:00:02 71kN 1.N2b3 c5 2.Nxf5 c4 3.Qd4 Qxd4 4.Nfxd4 cxb3 5.axb3 µ (-1.03) depth: 6/23 00:00:02 98kN 1.b4 Bd6 2.Kf2 Rhe8 3.a4 Kb8 ³ (-0.66) depth: 6/23 00:00:03 115kN 1.Rfd1 Bh6 2.b3 Kb8 3.c4 Rhe8 4.Nf1 ³ (-0.61) depth: 6/23 00:00:04 156kN 1.Rad1 Bh6 2.Nxf5 gxf5 3.Qxf5+ ³ (-0.45) depth: 6/23 00:00:06 206kN 1.Rad1 Bh6 2.b4 Kb8 3.a4 Rhe8 4.Rfe1 ³ (-0.50) depth: 7/23 00:00:12 431kN 1.Rfd1 Bh6 2.b4 a5 3.b5 Rhe8 4.Nf1 ³ (-0.47) depth: 7/25 00:00:14 503kN 1.Kh2 Qf6 2.Ne2 Bd6 3.Nf4 c6 4.a4 ³ (-0.44) depth: 7/25 00:00:25 894kN 1.a4 Bh6 2.Kh2 Rhe8 3.Nxf5 Bxe3 4.Nxe3 ³ (-0.33) depth: 7/25 00:00:27 970kN 1.a4 Bh6 2.b4 Rhe8 3.Rfe1 Kb8 4.a5 Qd6 5.Nf1 ³ (-0.45) depth: 8/25 00:00:41 1484kN (Young, 9/25/99) New position 2kr1b1r/ppp4p/1q4p1/3p1p1b/3N4/2PQPPP1/PP1N2P1/R4RK1 w - - 0 1 Analysis by Fritz 5.00/16Bit: 1.Nxf5 Qxb2 ³ (-0.69) depth: 1/1 00:00:00 1.Nxf5 Qxb2 ³ (-0.69) depth: 2/2 00:00:00 1.Nxf5 Qxb2 2.Rfb1 ³ (-0.41) depth: 3/3 00:00:00 1.Nxf5 Rg8 2.Rfd1 Qxb2 ³ (-0.44) depth: 4/4 00:00:00 1kN 1.Nxf5 Kb8 2.Nd4 Qxb2 3.Rfb1 ³ (-0.44) depth: 5/5 00:00:00 4kN 1.Nxf5 Qxb2 2.Rfb1 Qa3 3.Rb3 Qc5 ³ (-0.41) depth: 6/6 00:00:00 19kN 1.Nxf5 gxf5 2.Qxf5+ Kb8 3.Qxh5 Qxe3+ 4.Rf2 Rg8 5.Qh4 ³ (-0.44) depth: 7/7 00:00:01 43kN 1.Nxf5 gxf5 2.Qxf5+ Kb8 3.Rf2 Qxe3 4.Nf1 Qe8 5.Rd1 -+ (-2.97) depth: 8/8 00:00:02 189kN 1.Qb5 -+ (-2.94) depth: 8/21 00:00:02 421kN 1.Qb5 Qxb5 2.Nxb5 Bc5 3.Rfe1 Rhe8 4.Nd4 Bd6 5.Nf1 µ (-1.19) depth: 8/21 00:00:02 442kN 1.Rae1 µ (-1.16) depth: 8/23 00:00:03 786kN 1.Rae1 Kb8 2.Qb5 Qxb5 3.Nxb5 Bg7 µ (-1.03) depth: 8/23 00:00:05 972kN 1.Rfe1 µ (-1.00) depth: 8/26 00:00:06 1477kN 1.Rfe1 Bh6 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nxc4 Bxe3+ 4.Rxe3 Qxd4 5.Rd1 µ (-0.91) depth: 8/26 00:00:07 1780kN 1.Rfe1 Bd6 2.Nf1 Rd7 3.Qb5 Qxb5 4.Nxb5 Bc5 5.Rad1 h6 µ (-1.03) depth: 9/9 00:00:18 3385kN 1.b3 µ (-1.00) depth: 9/28 00:00:22 6198kN 1.Rad1 µ (-0.97) depth: 9/28 00:00:32 9600kN 1.a4 µ (-0.94) depth: 9/28 00:00:40 11944kN 1.a4 Bh6 2.Rfe1 Rhe8 3.b4 Qd6 4.Nb5 Qxg3 5.Nf1 Qg5 µ (-1.13) depth: 10/10 00:00:51 13941kN 1.Rad1 µ (-1.09) depth: 10/29 00:00:52 17021kN 1.Rad1 Bd6 2.Nxf5 gxf5 3.Qxf5+ Kb8 4.Qxh5 Qxe3+ 5.Kh1 Bxg3 µ (-1.03) depth: 10/30 00:00:56 17430kN 1.b3 µ (-1.00) depth: 10/30 00:01:00 18730kN 1.Rfd1 µ (-0.97) depth: 10/30 00:01:19 24512kN 1.Rfd1 Bh6 2.Nf1 Kb8 3.c4 Rhe8 4.cxd5 Rxd5 µ (-0.94) depth: 10/31 00:01:22 26410kN (Young, 9/25/99) New position 2kr1b1r/ppp4p/1q4p1/3p1p1b/3N4/2PQPPP1/PP1N2P1/R4RK1 w - - 0 1 Analysis by Junior 5.0: 1.Qb5 Bd6 = (-0.23) depth: 3 00:00:00 1.Qb5 Bh6 2.Rae1 Rhe8 ³ (-0.45) depth: 6 00:00:01 4kN 1.c4 Qxb2 2.Ne6 Re8 3.cxd5 = (-0.20) depth: 6 00:00:01 7kN 1.c4 Qxb2 2.Ne6 Re8 3.cxd5 = (-0.20) depth: 6 00:00:01 11kN 1.c4 c5 2.N4b3 Qe6 3.Rae1 Be7 ³ (-0.28) depth: 9 00:00:01 94kN 1.a4 Re8 2.Nxf5 Qe6 3.Nd4 Qxe3+ 4.Qxe3 Rxe3 = (-0.14) depth: 9 00:00:01 192kN 1.a4 Re8 2.Nxf5 Qe6 3.Nd4 Qxe3+ 4.Qxe3 Rxe3 = (-0.14) depth: 9 00:00:01 287kN 1.a4 Bh6 2.Kh2 Qf6 3.Nb5 a6 4.Na7+ Kb8 5.Qd4 ³ (-0.27) depth: 12 00:00:03 1003kN 1.a4 Bh6 2.Kh2 Qf6 3.Nb5 a6 4.Na7+ Kb8 5.Qd4 ³ (-0.27) depth: 12 00:00:13 4522kN 1.a4 Bh6 2.f4 Rhe8 3.a5 Qf6 4.a6 Qe7 5.axb7+ ³ (-0.40) depth: 14 00:00:17 5890kN 1.a4 Bh6 2.f4 Rhe8 3.a5 Qf6 4.a6 Qe7 5.axb7+ ³ (-0.40) depth: 14 00:01:12 24348kN 1.a4 Bh6 2.Rfe1 Rhe8 3.b4 Kb8 ³ (-0.43) depth: 15 00:01:21 27455kN (Young, 9/25/99) New position 2kr1b1r/ppp4p/1q4p1/3p1p1b/3N4/2PQPPP1/PP1N2P1/R4RK1 w - - 0 1 Analysis by Crafty 16.15: 1.N2b3 = (-0.16) depth: 1 00:00:00 1.N2b3 Qd6 ³ (-0.49) depth: 2 00:00:00 1.N2b3 Qd6 2.Ne2 ³ (-0.55) depth: 3 00:00:00 1.N4b3 Qd6 2.Qd4 ³ (-0.53) depth: 3 00:00:00 1.Nxf5 Qxb2 2.Rfb1 ³ (-0.52) depth: 3 00:00:00 1.Nxf5 Qxb2 2.Rfb1 Qa3 ³ (-0.39) depth: 4 00:00:00 1.Nxf5 Qxb2 2.Rfb1 Qa3 3.Qd4 ³ (-0.37) depth: 5 00:00:00 1.Nxf5 Qxb2 2.Rfb1 Qa3 3.g4 Bxg4 4.fxg4 gxf5 5.gxf5 ³ (-0.45) depth: 6 00:00:01 56kN 1.Nxf5 Qxb2 2.Rfb1 Qa3 3.g4 Bxg4 4.fxg4 gxf5 5.gxf5 ³ (-0.45) depth: 7 00:00:01 121kN 1.Nxf5 gxf5 2.g4 Be8 3.Qxf5+ Rd7 4.Qe5 Bg7 5.Qh2 -+ (-3.06) depth: 8 00:00:03 485kN 1.c4 Qxb2 2.Ne6 Bb4 3.Rad1 dxc4 4.Qxc4 Rd7 5.Nb3 µ (-0.89) depth: 8 00:00:05 760kN 1.a4 Bh6 2.b4 Kb8 3.b5 Qd6 4.Ne2 Rhe8 ³ (-0.64) depth: 8 00:00:08 1266kN 1.a4 Bh6 2.Rfe1 Kb8 3.a5 Qd6 4.a6 c5 5.Nb5 ³ (-0.51) depth: 9 00:00:18 3060kN 1.a4 Bh6 2.Rf2 Rhe8 3.Nf1 Kb8 4.a5 Qd6 5.a6 c5 µ (-0.73) depth: 10 00:00:34 5971kN 1.Rfd1 Bh6 2.Nf1 Kb8 3.b4 Qd6 4.a4 Rhe8 5.b5 Bg5 ³ (-0.66) depth: 10 00:00:58 10321kN (Young, 9/25/99)
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